Coh 2 game director Quinn Duffy left relic

What saddens me most is that "Expect Historians" have the same sources as we do, and the normies praise them if they say the correct number of things.

You don't need a phd in physics to remember all three Newton's laws, same with basic knowledge of history to see that what Relic portrayed actually does more harm then good.
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Nobody is saying Stalin was an angel or that he didn't commit crimes against humanity. That's not what's being discussed.

However, depicting the brave men and women of the Red Army as spineless cowards who are unwilling to fight for their homes and families without being forced at gunpoint and reinforcing negative stereotypes already disproved by reputable academic research is racist, just like how saying the French Army is made of defeatist surrender monkeys is also racist.

The true terror of these totalitarian mass murderer regimes that deserves criticism lies in the political purges or the famines, not the way they defended themselves against a ruthless enemy who sought to wage a racial war of annihilation.

Where is the truth about the Nazi regime in the game? One at least as evil as, if not worse than, the Soviet Union? A mere footnote in the campaign. The campaign narrative that Quinn Duffy made doesn't try to criticize totalitarian regimes, it only seeks to criticize the Russian one, and disingenuously at that.

CoH3 will be far better off without his politics involved.

EDIT: Honorable mention of 'truth':
"One Russian carries the gun, the other the ammo"

Nope. You are wrong. Coh2 campaign never depicted Soviet soldiers as cowards. In coh2 Relic take brave stance on totalitarian socialist atrocious. Not just soviet socialist. Also national socialists.(Aka nazis). And your sayings about politics is also politics. I hope Relic will touch more on human sides of the conflicts and backgrounds like Holodomor or Anne Frank. And touching human rights subjects is not racism. Right now there is a genocide happening in China. Forced abortion, forced sterilization, forced birth control, rape (including gang rape), forced labor, torture, beatings, internment, brainwashing happening aganist Uyghurs, Kazakhs, Kyrgyz, and other Turkic Muslims.

Why anyone would expect relic to do proper soviet campaign anyway?

I mean, even on CoH3 site when they were posting about coh3 story, one of the devs said that back in the day coh team looked at Band of Brothers\Saving Private Ryan for vCoH.

As for CoH2 they looked at Enemy at the gate and works of Solzhenitsyn (who is know on the west and was very anti-soviet dude).

I mean, you shouldn't expect something truth breaking. Most of the western players saw heroic hollywood movies about US\UK, the same way most of the hollywood russians as braindead retards.

I dont really understand why only relic touched the nerve here. Why CoD didnt, especially new modern warfare where russians shown as terrorists (and american war crimes IRL portraired to be made by Russians).

Its like relic are the first who made this. They are amatures in history, just like pretty much 99% of any player base, they recreate what they were shown\teached and what general audience can relate to and understand.

Why anyone would expect relic to do proper soviet campaign anyway?

I mean, even on CoH3 site when they were posting about coh3 story, one of the devs said that back in the day coh team looked at Band of Brothers\Saving Private Ryan for vCoH.

As for CoH2 they looked at Enemy at the gate and works of Solzhenitsyn (who is know on the west and was very anti-soviet dude).

I mean, you shouldn't expect something truth breaking. Most of the western players saw heroic hollywood movies about US\UK, the same way most of the hollywood russians as braindead retards.

I dont really understand why only relic touched the nerve here. Why CoD didnt, especially new modern warfare where russians shown as terrorists (and american war crimes IRL portraired to be made by Russians).

Its like relic are the first who made this. They are amatures in history, just like pretty much 99% of any player base, they recreate what they were shown\teached and what general audience can relate to and understand.

Call of duty has received its own criticism of meddling with history, like when they put the blame on US war crimes on the Russians.

Relic isn't the first nor the last company to make historically inaccurate/outright wrong games, but other games are being called out for it more and more, there is no reason why relic shouldnt be, too

Call of duty has received its own criticism of meddling with history, like when they put the blame on US war crimes on the Russians.

Relic isn't the first nor the last company to make historically inaccurate/outright wrong games, but other games are being called out for it more and more, there is no reason why relic shouldnt be, too

Relic should be called out, but realistically CoH2 story at worst is just tasteless and badly thought out. Relic got so much hate and problems, but in reality if we compare other games\movies they do much worst in terms of lies and history revision.

As I was always saying, main problem of CoH2 story is that it focused way too much on "unusual bad cases". I mean, tecnically speaking, nothing what was shown in the CoH2 couldnt have had happen during the war. Pretty much any "questinable" event which was shown in CoH2 did happen IRL and there are even soviet documents confirming it. On the other hand, such events could have accured maybe few times during 4 years of war and including it in the story is at best stupid.

Its as if, Relic would have made US campaign where in every mission you would have to bombard civilians, loot and comit other warcrimes. It would be a bad taste, not because it didnt happen, but because its plain stupid to base your storytelling on this narrative.

Idk, I am personally offended more by games like CoD. Because they are intentionally re-writhing history and intentionlly strate up lying. CoH2 is just an example of really bad writing in my opinion, without intentions of depicting soviets like trash.

You don't need a phd in physics to remember all three Newton's laws, same with basic knowledge of history to see that what Relic portrayed actually does more harm then good.
Show Spoiler

So your claim is that historical data, which in and of itself is by definition incomplete and skewered by personal claims and stakes throughout all the periods in history (and especially in a propaganda filled conflict as WW2) can be directly compared to an empirical science which is backed by definitive and unambiguous math and leaves no opinion to be desired.

And yet i'm the "4chan kid". Cringe and unbased. Repeat after me.

So saying that USSR was not human paradise is "15 year old 4chan user". Lmao true cope indeed my friend.

Literally everyone knows the Soviet Union was a hellhole, especially around the era the game is depicting. Acting like you are "in the know" for some avant-garde movement for new WW2 history while using tired memes that lost their edgy factor after years of kids like you beating them against the wood block of the internet while using the word "cuck" in nearly every post of yours is a dead giveaway.

The true issue with the game's campaign is that it was a disingenuous depiction of not only a shoddy political regime (which, of course, would be deserving of it to a degree) but the average, individual soldier fighting under the banner of that regime. As someone else already pointed out, cowards who were only fighting when a gun was pointed at their back, and the invasion of their home, the deaths of the family/loved ones, was not enough of a motivator for these "barbarians."

It's not even just the obvious stuff in the campaign, but the more subtle stuff as well, such as Soviet unit chatter. The average dialogue depicts the soldiers being either unwilling/unmotivated to fight, block-headedly patriotic, or mentally deficient jihadists.

This is just a few of the transgressions Quinn has made in general to the series. I won't go into the real issues, i.e., his dealings with the community and game design as someone has already pointed out. Bottom line is he is an asshole and I'm glad to see him go.

And to be quite honest, I don't really get all the ad-hominems around here.

All I am trying to say is that WW2 was a WAR after all, and in all wars no side is trully and fully morally complete. That's just ridiculous.

i always love how people try to tackle a topic like ww2 in 5-line posts and think they are smart

So your claim is that historical data, which in and of itself is by definition incomplete and skewered by personal claims and stakes throughout all the periods in history (and especially in a propaganda filled conflict as WW2) can be directly compared to an empirical science which is backed by definitive and unambiguous math and leaves no opinion to be desired.

Google context and analogy, please

Relic should be called out, but realistically CoH2 story at worst is just tasteless and badly thought out. Relic got so much hate and problems, but in reality if we compare other games\movies they do much worst in terms of lies and history revision.

As I was always saying, main problem of CoH2 story is that it focused way too much on "unusual bad cases". I mean, tecnically speaking, nothing what was shown in the CoH2 couldnt have had happen during the war. Pretty much any "questinable" event which was shown in CoH2 did happen IRL and there are even soviet documents confirming it. On the other hand, such events could have accured maybe few times during 4 years of war and including it in the story is at best stupid.

Its as if, Relic would have made US campaign where in every mission you would have to bombard civilians, loot and comit other warcrimes. It would be a bad taste, not because it didnt happen, but because its plain stupid to base your storytelling on this narrative.

Idk, I am personally offended more by games like CoD. Because they are intentionally re-writhing history and intentionlly strate up lying. CoH2 is just an example of really bad writing in my opinion, without intentions of depicting soviets like trash.

But CoH2's single player campaign is rewriting history. This last mission brings the line under the whole company. The protagonist claims that millions of people died for the sake of a photograph of the flag over the Reichstag. So either an idiot or a liar could say that, or if the USSR would attack Germany and not vice versa. The main character is an officer who fights from the beginning of the war until the end of the war, he became a military correspondent and was supposed to see burned villages, massacres of civilians, concentration camps, civilians who were driven to forced labor in Germany (remember that in forced labor in Germany killed 2,164,300 Soviet citizens). And all this happened until the end of the war. And he says shit like that.

Description in the mission in which it is said that the Red Army refused to help the Polish Army, apparently here it is worth understanding the Warsaw Uprising - a lie. The Warsaw Uprising began after a major Soviet offensive 500 kilometers deep and 500 kilometers wide, after which supply lines were thinned. And even in these conditions, Rokossovsky (an ethnic Pole) began to help the Uprising, an offensive began on Prague (a suburb of Warsaw), the Insurgents dropped more than 300 tons of supplies, artillery spotters were parachuted for more accurate artillery support.

The whole CoH2 single company is a rewriting of history and its personal political vision, and I would very much like to know whose political vision of Quinn Duffy or the former THQ is, I hope someday some Relic employee who participated in the creation of a single company will tell us this story.

i always how people try to tackle a topic like ww2 in 5-line posts and think they are smart

I love two things about these posts:
1) I am happy to see everyone here speaking english. If everyone speaks the same language on Earth we will all be citizens of the world, and not individual countries.
2) Since most here do not natively speak english, I like reading the whole 5 sentences and still not being sure which side of the argument they are on. Its a little mini game for me.

So lets all remember why we are here. Its not to argue and split hairs about words uttered, but to enjoy the comradery of the Coh2 community.

But CoH2's single player campaign is rewriting history. This last mission brings the line under the whole company. The protagonist claims that millions of people died for the sake of a photograph of the flag over the Reichstag.

I belive there was a different context for this line. Before last mission there was a mission where you was supposed to cut german retreat and eliminate them in process. Protagonists says that cutting this retreat was pointless, because those feeling germans tried to escape in order to surrender to Western Allies. And main idea was that Red Army's Berlin Operation was rushed in order to capture it before Western Allies (which was true IRL) and therefor a lot of casualties from both Russian and German side could have been avoided if not for the soviet command desire to be first in Berlin. This is what this line about photo was about. But the shit writing arent making it clear enouth.

The main character is an officer who fights from the beginning of the war until the end of the war, he became a military correspondent and was supposed to see burned villages, massacres of civilians, concentration camps, civilians who were driven to forced labor in Germany (remember that in forced labor in Germany killed 2,164,300 Soviet citizens). And all this happened until the end of the war. And he says shit like that.

And there are, tho its never in focus (which is one of the problems). Thoughtout the campaign you can see dead civilians or killed wounded (especially in the polish sniper mission) by germans. In Lublin mission its clearly shown that Germans killed soviet POWs.

It actually represents the whole problem with the campaign. Relic for some reason desided to throw shit in the face and focus on shit much more then on actuall heroism of the Red Army. In order to see it you have to read between lines in pretty much every cutscene\mission discripion.

This pretty much somewhat proves, that relic didnt really intended to show soviets in a bad light, because otherwise such moments easily could have been cut out from the game.

Description in the mission in which it is said that the Red Army refused to help the Polish Army, apparently here it is worth understanding the Warsaw Uprising - a lie. The Warsaw Uprising began after a major Soviet offensive 500 kilometers deep and 500 kilometers wide, after which supply lines were thinned. And even in these conditions, Rokossovsky (an ethnic Pole) began to help the Uprising, an offensive began on Prague (a suburb of Warsaw), the Insurgents dropped more than 300 tons of supplies, artillery spotters were parachuted for more accurate artillery support.

Its considered, by western historians and poles themselfs, that Red Army intentionally didnt help during uprising. True or not, its not Relic lie persay. Its the narrative pushed by western historians, you cant really blame relic for this, because its pretty naive to think that their research went farther then the Wikipedia and few books maybe. Is it a lie? Maybe, but its not the lie Relic invented.

The whole CoH2 single company is a rewriting of history and its personal political vision, and I would very much like to know whose political vision of Quinn Duffy or the former THQ is, I hope someday some Relic employee who participated in the creation of a single company will tell us this story.

Again, its not political. I mean, Relic just look over narrative pushed by the mass media, known historians, hollywood movies and created the script. You cant really expect western developers to avoid having this kind of problem, especially considering that they, in a first place, want to create action movie.

I mean, sure some might have been offended by the campaign and the story. But people should really understand that it ended up like this, not because Duffy or Relic are neo-nazis, anti-soviets or came from hitlerjugend. They just took the most generic representation of the soviets which is common in a west culture and created the game. No more, no less, no ill intentions.

I belive there was a different context for this line. Before last mission there was a mission where you was supposed to cut german retreat and eliminate them in process. Protagonists says that cutting this retreat was pointless, because those feeling germans tried to escape in order to surrender to Western Allies. And main idea was that Red Army's Berlin Operation was rushed in order to capture it before Western Allies (which was true IRL) and therefor a lot of casualties from both Russian and German side could have been avoided if not for the soviet command desire to be first in Berlin. This is what this line about photo was about. But the shit writing arent making it clear enouth.



And there are, tho its never in focus (which is one of the problems). Thoughtout the campaign you can see dead civilians or killed wounded (especially in the polish sniper mission) by germans. In Lublin mission its clearly shown that Germans killed soviet POWs.

It actually represents the whole problem with the campaign. Relic for some reason desided to throw shit in the face and focus on shit much more then on actuall heroism of the Red Army. In order to see it you have to read between lines in pretty much every cutscene\mission discripion.

This pretty much somewhat proves, that relic didnt really intended to show soviets in a bad light, because otherwise such moments easily could have been cut out from the game.


Its considered, by western historians and poles themselfs, that Red Army intentionally didnt help during uprising. True or not, its not Relic lie persay. Its the narrative pushed by western historians, you cant really blame relic for this, because its pretty naive to think that their research went farther then the Wikipedia and few books maybe. Is it a lie? Maybe, but its not the lie Relic invented.


Again, its not political. I mean, Relic just look over narrative pushed by the mass media, known historians, hollywood movies and created the script. You cant really expect western developers to avoid having this kind of problem, especially considering that they, in a first place, want to create action movie.

I mean, sure some might have been offended by the campaign and the story. But people should really understand that it ended up like this, not because Duffy or Relic are neo-nazis, anti-soviets or came from hitlerjugend. They just took the most generic representation of the soviets which is common in a west culture and created the game. No more, no less, no ill intentions.

The Berlin operation was planned quite well, Zhukov first of all cut off Berlin from other troops that could help Berlin and avoided unnecessary losses. In general, statistically speaking, in percentage terms, Zhukov lost the smallest number of soldiers than any other general in the Red Army.

Quite strange claims about not helping the Uprising, when: - a) there was help, - b) the Uprising was directly aimed against the USSR and organized by the government in Exile, the Red Army did not know about the Uprising and could not coordinate its actions with the Poles. Although in 1944 there is another example of the Uprising - the Slovak National Uprising, in which the Slovaks began to plan their actions with the Red Army and the Red Army helped the country that sent its troops to fight the USSR.

So lets all remember why we are here. Its not to argue and split hairs about words uttered, but to enjoy the comradery of the Coh2 community.

I'm from Ukraine, so for the most part I'm extremely anti-soviet, even though 3 out of 4 grand-grandfathers fought in the Red Army, 2 of the made it alive. One of them got killed in Kursk battle, MIA.

About the "1 rifle for several soldiers". One of my grand-grandfathers was positioned near Lviv (also known as Lemberg or Lvov, Western part of Ukraine) and he actually was in situation when even if you managed to get a rifle, you had no ammo for it to shot with :/ He also told my farther a lot of shit that Germans pulled out (including atrocities), but for the most part Wehrmacht was OK.
Stories with German pilot falling in love with Jewish girl and trying to save her life in Kiev, followed by mass murders and almost famine alike conditions in big cities. Burned villages, rape and murder, villagers forcefully repositioned to Germany to work on farms, just to be later be horribly treated and raped by the Soviets as traitors.

So much real and great stories, but, as Gachi pointed out, Relic went full "Enemy at the Gates" type of crap