Here's your f-ing Tiger Relic (replay)

Yeah, this is what Vindicare and others were talking about.

In a relatively even game - which I got on top of at the end and was about to start base raping, here comes the Tiger.

Now this was my first time facing it in 1v1 so I'm sure I made lots of mistakes, and come to think of it, this was the first time I was facing someone who was vetting everything and my retreats were often too late. When it appeared I got my T34s away but one was fausted and died, I couldn't get a safe rear ram off so I went to his base to kill the vetted infantry. Meanwhile the blob of super vet stuff that I'd been managing to wittle down or avoid all game also decimates my infantry while I'm desperately trying to save my tanks. Basically, the thing turns way too fast. With a modicum of micro you can avoid rear rams all day long. It only needs two shots to kill a T-34 so if you don't have the exact right opportunity - the turret must be facing the wrong way, and you're also coming from the rear - you're screwed.

I rammed it from the front at the end out of frustration and rage quit.

In no way is this any kind of game I want to play. I can't even imagine the sick minds that came up with this, I feel bile rising in my throat just thinking about it.

Heresyourfingtigerrelic.rec

Somebody's mad he lost. XDDDDD

good to see the no play protest didnt last long. you were playing sunday and now youre playing tuesday haha. we really dont need an update everytime you ragequit the game though.

in case you do want to keep playing, ramming tigers from the back isnt much better than the front. its a 53% chance from the front and 64% chance in the back. generally its not worth trying to get behind it since youll get fausted or die in the process. just ram it from the front unless you have a really good opportunity.

I've watched your replay, you just got outplayed. The problem is not the Tiger Ace, you could finish your opponent long before he even called in the tiger because he spent way over 100 fuel on veterancy and PAK40 was his only at for a long time. He spent 40 fuel only on mortar vet lol.
advice:
1.Keep your t70s and t34s away from faust range. Actually if you didnt lose those two t70s so fast you would have won.
2.Mine the roads and dont try to fight tiger ace head on!

I usually mine every road and chokepoint possible when I expect to see a tiger ace. Then when he calls it in I just start hunting his pioneers with t34s and keep building at guns, 2-3 atgs is ok. Dont even bother to kill other infantry than pioneers, they are your primary target, not tiger ace. After you kill pios he has no chance.

Will watch in a minute. I pray to the RNG Gods you didnt use a DLC Commander or Ill rip my spleen laughing.

Brb.

Observations:
-That mid-wiring did nothing. Capping mid at start is fail on this map.
-lul at Con spam even with the 500 MP change. So much for "diversity".
-Patch result: Immediate onfield capping potential of Sov (which you didn't capitalise on)
-lul at leaving Cons to bleed in south fuel and vs Vet 3 Grens @ 04:20
-not capping your native VP
-LUL at first T70 baserush @ 09:35 WTF?
-Losing V1 T70 that raped V3 LMG Grens @ 14:30
-Trying to engage V3 LMG Grens with V3 PPSH Cons at NE VP, and failing to retreat.
-Stopped watching there.

You basically tried to abuse T70s, but failed because you utterly overextended your first 2. If you had retained them until you had 3, you would have utterly demolished this guy, purely with the power of T70s.

I laugh, hard. You lost this WAY before Ace will ever make an appearance.
If anything, this demonstrates how OP T70s are, even without Industry.

Well, whatever, I was tired and playing tired is not a recipe for success.

I am glad I fought hard for 30 minutes so my success or failure can all be decided by one arcade game: "TigerRam2". You know, Relic, we could just skip the whole skirmishing for 30-40 minutes thing and just play TigerRam2. We could even buy more "lives" (T-34s) in game and you can charge us 25 cents per life, just like an old arcade game.

We could even buy more "lives" (T-34s) in game and you can charge us 25 cents per life, just like an old arcade game.

That's the next soviet commander.

Unlimited T34 Works

Link your credit card to your CoH2 profile and each time you click the ability, you can call-in T34s paying real-life resources.
The definitive counter to Tiger Ace!!!

That's the next soviet commander.

Unlimited T34 Works

Link your credit card to your CoH2 profile and each time you click the ability, you can call-in T34s paying real-life resources.
The definitive counter to Tiger Ace!!!

Until bested by the 'Win' button.
Oh wait.... they already have one....

So wait, let me get this straight.

You were raging about the commanders a while ago and organised an "incredibly successful" protest day on Monday, yet you only faced one of the new the commanders today (assuming you uploaded the replay shortly after playing)? So basically for your opinion so far you completely relied on "Vindicare and the others"?

Hilarious.

There is lots of valid criticism to be leveled at CoH2. This thread doesn't have any of that though, just lots of vitriol.

Well said sir. Very gentleman response.

Thruth being that even though you wasted some T70s and Cons needlessly, you would have lost to OP TA anyways... Also lol that V3 Mortar right at the start.

Some general tips. If you leverage the new MP into Cons and early CE onmap instead of "diversifying" as the fanbois say, try the following:
-Send your CE to advance Ost objectives. Cap them, then MINE them. Use CE as a harassment tool on his native progression.
-Leverage your earlier Cons in a blob along your own fuel+ native line to ensure you retain your fuel, and then advance together towards mid.
-Your early start was very DoW2, witha very wide spread. Ok, why not, since now Sov has the early advantage.. But in conjunction with this, be sure to pull your Cons immediately our of infavorable engagaments with Oorah, and MORE IMPORTANTLY consolidate them along the Ost main line of advance. Use Oorah to group your early Con blob against where Ost is pooling his smaller Gren force.
-Never ever again send your first T70 into the base. That is a luxury you can only indulgr in once you have 3 T70s.
-If you lose your first T70 beforethe second, dont build another. Go t34 instead. Your snowball window is gone and you need to get ready for PIVs.

So wait, let me get this straight.

You were raging about the commanders a while ago and organised an "incredibly successful" protest day on Monday, yet you only faced one of the new the commanders today (assuming you uploaded the replay shortly after playing)? So basically for your opinion so far you completely relied on "Vindicare and the others"?

Hilarious.

It was the first game where they actually managed to win with the Tiger. I've faced that doctrine a handful of times, but I always won fairly quickly before they even got close to the Tiger. I play probably 4-5 1v1s a day, and yeah, yesterday I was off until midnight. There are fewer people in 1v1 automatch using that commander than you might expect. And where is that quote from? I never said it was "incredibly successful." Truth be told, it looks like it had no impact at all, but at least I tried!

Oh and actually Nullist the T70 baserush was just to get the vet 3 mortar. On certain maps like Kholodny it can sit back and cause an enormous manpower drain and leaving me vulnerable to squad wipes if an LMG gren popped up while I was capping and had already lost half a squad to the mortar. I considered the sacrifice worth it actually, akin to suiciding a jeep to get a sniper. That mortar was really hurting me, far more than the LMG grens I could run away from.

it accured to me that "LOL" wasn't a good reply so im thinking of something constructive.

making a thread that is titled "heres your F-ing tiger relic (replay)". isn't gonna help your case, in fact it just increases your likely hood that they will ignore you.

Oh and actually Nullist the T70 baserush was just to get the vet 3 mortar. On certain maps like Kholodny it can sit back and cause an enormous manpower drain and leaving me vulnerable to squad wipes if an LMG gren popped up while I was capping and had already lost half a squad to the mortar. I considered the sacrifice worth it actually, akin to suiciding a jeep to get a sniper. That mortar was really hurting me, far more than the LMG grens I could run away from.

You got some fairly impressive infantry kills, including wipes, with the initial T70 spam and then the subsequent T34 spam though. Notably I was also quite shocked (but not entirely surprised) by how fast they vetted off those.

Im just saying, if you are going to go early Con spam to take advantage of the MP change, then consolidate them in a grouped force. Use Oorah to bring in other Cons from elsewhere on the field in surprise flanks on his main advance line. The full court spread you played at start is very familiar to me from DoW2. Its advantage is you can scout where the opponent is going with his stuff. The challenge is then consolidating your forces after the initial spread to counter it. Oorah is a fantastic tool specifically for this purpose, especially matched to what the 500 MP change did for Con spam in terms of early field presence. As soon as you meet Grens in an unfavorable match, Oorah the fuck out of there to join them with another Con unit, or Oorah the other Con unit over to them once the initial Con is out of LoS. Then gangbang his advance and force him off.

I mean this in terms of vanilla balance ofc. Everyone knows the DLC Commanders are bullshit. But my advice above should ring true for baseline strats.

Tiger ace is easymode. I laugh when it comes out and say "what a sucker". Then I power up my t34s for ramming attacks and fancy laser light shows.

I used to think the TA was ok,a and that focusing infantry for MP bleed was enough of a counter.

But I was wrong. In an even match uptil that point, the combined arms on the field are roughly equal (with a notable shortfall in Ost armor though, depending on Vet impetus, but still, Ost can play that by ear with this Commander. If he has done well, he can armor, if not so well, then buy Vet and kill infamtry instead).

The TA is an upfront free loan. In a balanced match, its the equivalent of getting something like 1000MP/300Fuel/30Muni for free, at CP6 which is only one more than a conventional Tiger on other Commanders.

It goes like this:
-Ost is losing like fuck. So what, I got V3 Tiger with all the trimmings for free.
-Balanced match. So what, TA will just add to all the shit I already got. Gl trying to kill it before I roll into your base.
-Ost is winning like fuck. Well, might as well TA YOLOOOOOO!

So, how to fixmthis?
-Since Relic has been playing around with CP costs, Id put TA at about 9-10 CP.
Sov needs time to man up against this. Frankly, the later it comes, the better. In this way Sov can defeat the TAs monstrosity not only by facing off against it, but by flat out conventionally winning the game brfore it appears.
-Charge for it. Ok, so the halted income is a "thing". I get that. But how about say, pylling outof my ass,a 500/200/15 callin cost? Thats still cheaper than its worth, but atleast it hurts your current resouece pool, plus the income stop, enough to make you really think twice aboutnit or a nothernPiV instead.
-I like 3. I need a third option. Hmm.. Stat reduction? Normalise it to the equivalwnt of a normal V3 Tiger+ Pintle. This would be inline with the Commanders Vet purchase dogma. It doesnt need to be a V3 Tiger on steroids amd every drug known to man, just a normal V3 Tiger.

Whadday guys think? I mean we have to fix it sooner or later, one way or a nother.
No way this unit can stay as it is.

I wish it was the same as a vet 3 tiger but with cool abilities. I.e he rounds and ap rounds, a sight increase when commander comes out, or some other ability that makes it an ace, not just double the armor. Oh and a self repair ability for 60 munis for 25 secs or something. That would really make the tiger "feel " like an ace, some cooler skins too?
So basically change stats to vet 3 tiger and keep the rest as is (income stop). Other than that I'm not sure, I personally don't think it's OP as I have played against it and won and played with it and lost.

Whadday guys think? I mean we have to fix it sooner or later, one way or a nother.
No way this unit can stay as it is.

I made a post about it in another thread and I came up with roughly the same ideas.

Increasing the pop cap will only fix part of the problem. An even game between two aggressive players hovering around the 50-60 pop cap will still end the game in the Germans favor once the ace is called in. The unit just has too much front loaded power. Finding a proper solution is going to be a bit tricky.

Just giving it a mp/fuel cost like other heavy tanks (and remove resource block) is problematic seeing as how powerful the tank is. It's currently twice as durable as a normal tiger (.45 damage modifier), does double the damage, has more range, and starts with vet. Considering a normal tiger is 720(700?)mp/200fuel, the ace would come close to double of that. This would make the tiger so expensive that the German player will likely get pushed of the field by a horde of T34/76s before even getting close to calling in the ace. To prevent this from happening the German will need a lot of PAK40s, which leads to a rather passive, boring, game. We already see this in 1v1 when a soviet goes for the ISU-152, and it will be even worse for the tiger ace.

A possible solution would be to make the ace more affordable at the expense of some of its stats. If it only had a .75 damage modifier and and 1.5x damage, extra range and blitz, then it could come out for somewhere around the price of an ISU-152. Maybe a bit more, maybe a bit less.

Or perhaps some middle ground can be found, where the ace has an initial cost, and only reduces income by X%. Or halts income until the ace dies. This will require a lot of tinkering until proper balance is achieved though. Making it too cheap to acquire will result in base rushes (as we have now), making it too cheap in upkeep will make acquiring it too difficult as its initial price will go up.

I think the best way to balance the tiger ace is by doing all of the above: nerf some of its stats, give it an initial cost to acquire, and only reduce income by X% until it dies, so that capping territory will still be important for the German player and the unit is not only used for baserushing.

There really is no arguing against the fact that a tank consistently 2 shotting SU85s and AT guns from a screen length away while taking hardly any damage in the process is OP. And if its range wasn't enough, it can just blitzkrieg behind them fresh out of the box. Only real counters to it is sinking it in ice or praying for a successful ram in front of like 4-7 hard AT units. Or you can always just kill everything else since he can't replace anything.

What about it turns into the tiger ace from coh1, your army turns into CPU- Expert and you can freefire the tiger Kappa