Ostheer Accuracy

Jump back to quoted post30 Nov 2021, 07:09 AMVipper

It seem you got that the other way round, it is not Donnie complaining about the "non doc vision from t70" but Katukov complaining about the doctrinal spotting scopes although Sander93's long response.

Jump back to quoted post30 Nov 2021, 07:09 AMVipper

Your description of m3a1 for some strange reason is flawed:
M3A3 has plenty of DPS on its own for its timing/class
M3A3 can survive an ATG shot so again it has plenty of HP for its timing/class

Jump back to quoted post30 Nov 2021, 10:18 AMKlement Pikhtura

he was complaining about how 222 is not as impactful as t70 and how t70 can spot everything, which 222 can do as well.

Jump back to quoted post30 Nov 2021, 10:18 AMKlement Pikhtura

ofc, my guy. Very good unit vs OST...maybe for a 1 screen army type of guy
Imagine getting m3 vs gren start with 20 range fausts and proceed to waste all your micro on it, just because it is "good on paper". Might as well save the resources for a future backtech into zis gun, so when p4 arrives you won't get caught with your pants down while parading your "all seeing" t70

Jump back to quoted post30 Nov 2021, 10:56 AMVipper

I think it safe to say that T-70 is more impactful than 222. Actually is one of the most impactful units of Soviet at least in small modes...

As for the sight his point was that T-70 provides stock a similar vision as Spotting scope provide
to PzIVs.

I am not sure what your point is here that M3a1 is UP?
Because claiming that it does not have DPS or
HP or
that is only "good on paper" sure makes it sound like it.

Jump back to quoted post30 Nov 2021, 11:24 AMKlement Pikhtura

so ~53 vision pre vet 3 apparently similar to 70 minimum vision from scope.

Jump back to quoted post30 Nov 2021, 11:24 AMKlement Pikhtura

And 222, which is a part of most OST builds, has also similar sight to t70.

Jump back to quoted post30 Nov 2021, 11:24 AMKlement Pikhtura

M3 is not that useful vs gren start. It is not OP, nor UP, this is how it is, I don't care. Please read my every comment explaining it is this way, because there won't be 2 pages long discussion about minor details that have already been pointed out in some way, shape or form.

Jump back to quoted post30 Nov 2021, 11:44 AMVipper

If you don't care I suggest not to post about its lack of DPS/HP/being good only on paper.

Jump back to quoted post30 Nov 2021, 10:18 AMKlement Pikhtura

Imagine getting m3 vs gren start with 20 range fausts and proceed to waste all your micro on it, just because it is "good on paper"

Jump back to quoted post30 Nov 2021, 11:24 AMKlement Pikhtura

M3 is not that useful vs gren start.

Jump back to quoted post29 Nov 2021, 23:03 PMKlement Pikhtura

it has no dps on its own, has no HP either and requires T1, which kind of different start from safe t2

Jump back to quoted post30 Nov 2021, 12:17 PMKlement Pikhtura

I don't care because you always pull off the "debating" stuff you love.

Show Spoiler

Also why don't you que up in 2v2 and 1v1 as SOV, find a decent OST opponent and use the very great Clown Car vs him?

Jump back to quoted post30 Nov 2021, 10:56 AMVipper

I think it safe to say that T-70 is more impactful than 222...

Jump back to quoted post30 Nov 2021, 12:54 PMEsxile

What are your backs for such claim.

Jump back to quoted post25 Nov 2021, 13:47 PMHannibal

...
Why is this phase more crucial for OST than say for Soviets? Due to infantry upgrades and the 222/251, Soviets are on the back foot from the ~4 minute mark until the T70 arrives. What sense does it make that they are denied their power spike?
...

Jump back to quoted post30 Nov 2021, 12:48 PMVipper

Ok you seem to want to use ad hominem arguments once more.

I am simply not going to follow you in the root you have chosen that will derail this thread which is about Ostheer accuracy.

Think we have established that:
that pak is not inaccurate
T-70 is more impactful than 222
that M3A1 is not up
that spotting scopes are not OP

and we can move on.

Jump back to quoted post30 Nov 2021, 13:02 PMVipper

...

Jump back to quoted post30 Nov 2021, 14:34 PMEsxile

Hannibal never said the T-70 is more impactful than the 222, quite the opposite. He says both are crucial for their timing.
Ostheer's 222 to apply early pressure and Soviet's T-70 to respond to it 4 minutes later.

Jump back to quoted post30 Nov 2021, 14:42 PMVipper

Read the post again he clearly describes the T-70 as Soviets power spike.

Jump back to quoted post1 Dec 2021, 09:22 AMleithianz

My units alway miss on red unit is something worth debating for 6 pages?

Wow...

Jump back to quoted post1 Dec 2021, 12:21 PMKlement Pikhtura

more of a "red units OP" type of thread, tbh, since Donnie failed to explain why OST in particular needs the special treatment.

Jump back to quoted post1 Dec 2021, 13:37 PMDonnieChan

i did explain it: the window of light vehicle gameplay brings Ost in a disadvantage because the only thing to fight LV is the Pak. However the pak is unflexible, slow and has no AI capabilities, so you must rely on good positioning, game sense, timing and ambushes to make it work. Which Per se is absolutely fine.

but when the Pak misses in such situation which happens far too often, the ost player is very often doomed.

i backed up my claim with replays and tried it out myself. i won 8 games with Sov in a row and it was much easier than wehr

Jump back to quoted post1 Dec 2021, 15:21 PMKlement Pikhtura

Only SOV have any sort of AI on their AT, with a downside of having has the lowest ROF.

Pak misses as much as any other AT. That was said multiple times. Why UKF, for example, does not have similar issue, but only OST?

As for "dead after missing a shot" you have 20 range fausts, 222 is also not all that helpless vs t70.

win streak does not mean much, unless you getting them repeatedly, while being matched vs similar or better then you opponents. Anyone can get a lucky streak both losing and winning. Only once you start winning/losing vs guys you have no business winning/losing against we can talk about some imbalances.

Jump back to quoted post1 Dec 2021, 16:13 PMDonnieChan

The PAK vs ZIS Gun argument would be viable if Ostheer had a t70 themself, but we're speaking about asymmetric balance here. And No, the 222 performance/impact/effectiveness is not camparable to t70