Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
then you agree it is same.
and I never said It will has same cost.
Posts: 177
No losing a more expensive entity is not the same as losing cheaper entity.
No losing an entity which represent the 25% of a squad is not the same as losing an entity that represent 17% of squad.
And that has nothing to do with it the squad is axis or allied.
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Did you forget about losing dps when dropped?
currently 6 and 4 men squad has same DPS.
So It does a same impact.
Posts: 177
If squad members carry the same same weapon a 4 men squad losing an entity lose 25% DPS an 6 man loses 17%. It is simply not the same.
I find this line of arguing very non constructive and I have little to add, so I will stop here.
You are entitled to believe that they it has the "same impact" if you wish thou.
Posts: 311
Posts: 177
I will add that all of the 3 snipers were nerfed too much.
They received double nerf is the last few patches:
- Sight nerf.
- Slow movement after shot nerf.
At least sight nerf should be reverted. Many players used snipers as forward observers.
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
except they don't carry a same weapon. and each weapon have difference damage / acc.
Honestly
everyone tried when argue with you because you always bring argument that out of topic. so I stopped now.
last things if it have no problem then why they(pro and balanced team) are trying to fix sniper problem almost 2 patch by now.
Posts: 22
I will add that all of the 3 snipers were nerfed too much.
They received double nerf is the last few patches:
- Sight nerf.
- Slow movement after shot nerf.
At least sight nerf should be reverted. Many players used snipers as forward observers.
Posts: 177
Unfortunately I have clarify because it seem you have misunderstood. It makes no difference if 4 men squad and six man squad carry different weapon as long the squad members with the same squad carry a weapon of the same DPS.
A 4 men squad losing a entity will 25% DPS and 6 men squad will 17%. If they carry different weapon the percentage might differ but they will still not be same.
If I have posted anything out of topic in this thread feel free to point out what in your opinion is out of topic.
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Can you underline a sentence or a word in my topic (not my reply to other) which I point about soviet sniper are weaker than OST?
My point is all sniper should have more nerf because It very difficult to kill in high rank gameplay.
I specific to OST because other sniper got mirrored by OST other stats while ost sniper fire rate and ability remain same.
Posts: 177
I have no idea why you are asking me that and I do not find the question constructive.
PLS do not quote me unless you want to respond to something relevant without what I have posted and in this case there is simply no relevance.
I have simply point out that different entities have different cost and thus the manpower is bleed from being sniped is different.
I have also point out that impact of losing an entity is related to number of entities of squad.
Feel free to disagree with any of these two points, if you wish.
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I didn't said you're wrong at your point. and I'm lazy to explain a about sniper mechanic ,build order in this post.
However
You point is not relevance to mine.so I don't need to reply which is not related in this topic.
If you want to share this opinion. Why you won't open a new one? then we make a discuss there not here.
In this topic.
Do I talk about cost here? No.
and Is this your word?
"If I have posted anything out of topic in this thread feel free to point out"
I will walkaway from your point in this topic but If you started new one maybe we make a dicussion again.
To fight with 4 men or 6 men. It is same. their duty is not wiped squad but sniped 1 men. 1 men mean manpower cost.
They're too good because you can't kill sniper without using other sniper or blobing and ORAAAAAAAAA!!! to kill only 1 sniper.
Posts: 1096
Posts: 177
Yes you have talk about manpower cost, actually you brought it to this debate and not me
Now pls stop asking me these questions and the non constrictive way of debate, I really do not want any part in it.
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
I reply to that comment. Not a Topic.
You're lying with statistics.
Let considering how much DPS that you mean 100% in its number.
According to this
https://coh2.serealia.ca/#97
Conscript max dps is 4.
4/6 = 0.67 per unit.
grenadier max dps is 6.
6/4 = 1.5 per unit.
assuming sniper dropped both 1 man.
conscript dps = 0.67*5 = 3.35
grenadier dps = 1.5*3 = 4.5
assuming sniper dropped both 2 man.
conscript dps = 0.67*4 = 2.68
grenadier dps = 1.5*2 = 3.0
even gren has halfzize of squad they still have higher dps.
Infantry unit was balanced by a lot of stats not just squad size.
this is not include Target size,pop cap, weapon upgrade. tech order. etc...
this is why I lazy to explain these things to you.
Posts: 177
1. This site is often wrong and 90% at least inaccurate
2. I don't know where you got the data from, surely not even from this site, because it does not line up. It's wrong though.
3. Because of 2, your calculations and conclusions are wrong as well.
4. DPS is not everything. Breaking it down to DPS only is pretty nonsense and only works if the HP are comparable.
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
1. Maybe But Player still use this site for ref(especially steam).
2. Value from "grenadier_squad_mp: grenadier_kar_98k_rifle_mp" I assume at close range dps.
3. How It is wrong? vipper was calculate losing dps by percent then I represent it as number.
4. yes agree so as reinforce cost it not everythings.
Posts: 177
1. Because it was available for a long time, but there is no information on how the DPS is calculated. I tested it and these graphs range from fairly accurate to very inaccurate, depending on weapon and range.
2+3: The values are per weapon, not per squad. Which should be fairly obvious if you look at the values. You just took them blindly without questioning any of it. When you saw 4 DPS for a whole Conscript squad at close range you should have seen that something is off. This turns your whole calculation about DPS after model loss upside down.
4. As you said yourself, a sniper is there to kill singular models. It's intention is bleed and strategic damage, which is why at least in the Conscript vs Ostheer setup, an Ostheer sniper is not as effective as e.g. against Penals or USF/UKF in general.
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
Yes. My point in this topic is at #4 with they too hard to kill. It shouldn't going to cost and dps calculation.
I'm wrong as calculate DPS per squad instead of per weaponw with outdated data.
However if calculate dps per squad a DPS lose is still in same pattern.
Thank for your stats chart. May I borrow them to use for reference next time?
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