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Why Brits Armor

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GGnore
13 Oct 2021, 05:54 AM
#41
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2021, 05:43 AMleithianz


I'm not sure you realize, but Panther is one of the very few non-doctrine tank that can wipe AT from the front 1v1.

OKW can counter with cheaper JP4, and while WM doesn't have expensive TD, can go for Panther to dominate AT or just stack up the cheap stug. It does come with (comparably) low pen, but it has very gigh Fire rate so its dps is pretty decent enough to counter Comet.


Your not going to seriously suggest a panther wiping a at gun is a viable or realistic scenario, why even mention this ?

Ostheer is weird in their tech that the panther is gated behind another layer of tech, I dont know why your so against a slight reduction in armour it would still have so much to offer..
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Operator09
13 Oct 2021, 06:00 AM
#42
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I just LOLED "They are designed to force the enemy to build expensive counters.".

So your mentality is to counter it with expensive ones? HA!


By the time you have panther he already has 2 Comets by choking you because vanilla AT can't even fire or pen because of movement speed and tools that it can operate alone.


SOV will swarm Tiger and KT with 3-4 T34/85 and that's fine, understandable.

so OKW is left to build 1 Panther to counter 2 Comets?

You kept comparing it to medium armor P4. It's a heavy armor and performing more than a Pershing.
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leithianz
13 Oct 2021, 06:15 AM
#43
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2021, 06:00 AMOperator09
I just LOLED "They are designed to force the enemy to build expensive counters.".

So your mentality is to counter it with expensive ones? HA!.


Are you reading the context or what?

He comlained stug (90 fuel) not penetrating Comet(175 fuel at last tier). Obviously he needs to invest more.

Same thing applies to the Panther vs Sherman. Peole will laugh at you if you say we should nerf Panther so Sherman can pen. more against Panther.

They are outclassed. USF obviously needs to build expensiver (than sherman) counter - Jackson - to deal with Panther.
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leithianz
13 Oct 2021, 06:22 AM
#44
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2021, 06:00 AMOperator09
I just LOLED "They are designed to force the enemy to build expensive counters.".

So your mentality is to counter it with expensive ones? HA!


By the time you have panther he already has 2 Comets by choking you because vanilla AT can't even fire or pen because of movement speed and tools that it can operate alone.


SOV will swarm Tiger and KT with 3-4 T34/85 and that's fine, understandable.

so OKW is left to build 1 Panther to counter 2 Comets?


What kind of game are you plaing?

UKF requires 30 + 115 + 50 = 195 fuels to build Comet. Without ANY upgrade or vehicle.
Which is far from the realistic play in 1v1.

OKW requires tech build cost of 190 to build Panther.
WM requires 175 fuels,

so if you are in the position of building 1 Panther to counter 2 Comets, opponent is overall better player than you. Too bad.
jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2021, 06:00 AMOperator09

You kept comparing it to medium armor P4. It's a heavy armor and performing more than a Pershing.


Not true at all, only thing Comet is better against Pershing is that it can fire white phrosporous & cheaper.
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leithianz
13 Oct 2021, 06:24 AM
#45
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2021, 05:54 AMGGnore

Ostheer is weird in their tech that the panther is gated behind another layer of tech,


So does the Comet. It requires hammer tactic which costs 50 fuel. Battle Phase 3 is cheaper than that. I'm not sure you even played UKF.

UKF requires 30 + 115 + 50 = 195 fuels to build Comet. Without ANY upgrade or vehicle.
Which is far from the realistic play in 1v1.

OKW requires tech build cost of 190 to build Panther.
WM requires 175 fuels,

So accessing to the Panther is somewhat same or cheaper than accessing the Comet.
jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2021, 05:54 AMGGnore

I dont know why your so against a slight reduction in armour it would still have so much to offer..


I'm against any kind of nerf to the UKF because overall UKF is THE WORST faction to play in current meta.

I used to play UKF as main faction, but I simply gave up the faction just like most of the tournament level players did.
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GGnore
13 Oct 2021, 07:06 AM
#46
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2021, 06:24 AMleithianz


So does the Comet. It requires hammer tactic which costs 50 fuel. Battle Phase 3 is cheaper than that. I'm not sure you even played UKF.

UKF requires 30 + 115 + 50 = 195 fuels to build Comet. Without ANY upgrade or vehicle.
Which is far from the realistic play in 1v1.

OKW requires tech build cost of 190 to build Panther.
WM requires 175 fuels,

So accessing to the Panther is somewhat same or cheaper than accessing the Comet.


I'm against any kind of nerf to the UKF because overall UKF is THE WORST faction to play in current meta.

I used to play UKF as main faction, but I simply gave up the faction just like most of the tournament level players did.


Mate you think stugs cost 75 fuel and because ostheer has an extra step of tech they have to build one building to get their p4 then tech and build another building to get a panther.

All the other factions get their tanks/td's in one spot and with less base building/tech like the brits that press one button for company command post and another for hammer/anvil.

There's no point arguing this with you anyways since you said you will defend any nerfs to the brits, because-reasons. Classic coh2 fanboiism
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leithianz
13 Oct 2021, 07:12 AM
#47
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Posts: 472

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2021, 07:06 AMGGnore

All the other factions get their tanks/td's in one spot and with less base building/tech like the brits that press one button for company command post and another for hammer/anvil.


BP also considers the cost of building itself. BP3 requires only 100 mp + building 100 mp so it is equal to (pre-buff) hammer/anvil tech mp cost while cheaper in terms of fuel. It just needs extra few click.

And it also gives you extra -2 mp from gren reinforcement cost.

And yes sorry about stug. 90 fule. But it still doesn't change a fact that it is cheap TD - cheaper than most of the medium - with pros(fast reload) & cons(less pen & range)


There is a difference between actual balance talk & some L2P issues. And I consider this thread as one of the later one.
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suora
13 Oct 2021, 13:06 PM
#49
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Posts: 101

https://streamable.com/oeprbi

here's a short clip for any clowns who think panther's AI is superior to comet's
:)
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Katukov
13 Oct 2021, 14:10 PM
#50
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2021, 13:06 PMsuora
https://streamable.com/oeprbi

here's a short clip for any clowns who think panther's AI is superior to comet's


damn bro that osttruppen squad was worth a whole 40 manpower, rip
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ullumulu
13 Oct 2021, 14:42 PM
#51
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2021, 05:43 AMleithianz


I'm not sure you realize, but Panther is one of the very few non-doctrine tank that can wipe AT from the front 1v1.



this is lol. never seen a panther "wipe" a AT gun grew. when yu take the word "wipe" its inlcude a very fast 1 or 2 shot "wipe" shot.

a panther kill a full health crew like: drive frontally close combat and kill one crew member after one with mg. there was never a "wiping" potencial like sturmtiger rocket which wipe whole crews. it kills slow and steady. a comet ...yes it wipes whole crew often easily
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donofsandiego
15 Oct 2021, 13:02 PM
#52
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2021, 05:54 AMGGnore
Your not going to seriously suggest a panther wiping a at gun is a viable or realistic scenario, why even mention this ?


A panther wiping an AT gun is a very realistic scenario, just not from the front. Now that's pretty far from viable.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
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donofsandiego
15 Oct 2021, 13:05 PM
#53
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Posts: 1379

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Oct 2021, 14:42 PMullumulu


this is lol. never seen a panther "wipe" a AT gun grew. when yu take the word "wipe" its inlcude a very fast 1 or 2 shot "wipe" shot.

a panther kill a full health crew like: drive frontally close combat and kill one crew member after one with mg. there was never a "wiping" potencial like sturmtiger rocket which wipe whole crews. it kills slow and steady. a comet ...yes it wipes whole crew often easily


No, "wipe" can also mean to destroy a squad so that it can no longer be reinforced. A "squad wipe" is just killing the squad, not necessarily deleting it in one shot.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
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GGnore
15 Oct 2021, 17:43 PM
#54
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Posts: 76

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Oct 2021, 13:02 PMdonofsandiego


A panther wiping an AT gun is a very realistic scenario, just not from the front. Now that's pretty far from viable.


Theoretically yes but so could a kubel & a t70 beats a elefant/jt in these fantasy matchups.

I believe the problem is its one of the few tanks that can wipe models/squads past 40 range in the league of the tiger/ise/pershing and since the tank commander gives it self spotting and a 10% accuracy buff they are able to operate on their own in roaming packs and will always get the first shot in tank engagements and become very hard to ambush.

This is fine for a heavy tank but the problem is there's no unit limit like other powerful heavy generalistic tanks and for good reason.

Theres no point in building a panther or a pz4 if you could build another tiger that combines the best of two units but saves on resources/micro and pop cap and it's what happened in previous patches with multiple is2/tigers before the hard cap.

Does anyone know if they still have high moving accuracy as well ?
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donofsandiego
15 Oct 2021, 18:34 PM
#55
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Posts: 1379

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Oct 2021, 17:43 PMGGnore


Theoretically yes but so could a kubel & a t70 beats a elefant/jt in these fantasy matchups...


A panther with MG in close range is not a pushover in decrewing team weapons. I wasn't talking about the main gun.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
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Dyingbattery22
25 Oct 2021, 05:09 AM
#56
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Posts: 32

I think the comets problem is the same problem the kv1 had which is being way too spammable, its a good tank on its own nothing insane but the problem arises when you have a comet and instead of there being a thoughtful decision on what tank to buy next you just buy more comets because it does everything pretty decently and having more just multiples the Allround effectiveness of your army
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ullumulu
25 Oct 2021, 06:15 AM
#57
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Posts: 2243

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Oct 2021, 13:05 PMdonofsandiego


No, "wipe" can also mean to destroy a squad so that it can no longer be reinforced. A "squad wipe" is just killing the squad, not necessarily deleting it in one shot.



wtf....i even explained what i mean with "wiping sqauds here and there"
yes everthink can wipe a crew. even a AT gun can do it with a long amount of time.

what we talking about is wipe sqauds with 1 or 2 shots.
never seen a panther doing that. never.

but a comet...this thing lol around the battlefield and not only wipe easily squads...it is fast like a gocart...has more armor...smoke and phosporous round to deal with several AT guns at the same time.

spaming panther is mostly dumb because u have no good AI. you stay alone with AT.

but spaming comets is so good these days..you can deal with all targets. you are fats enough, have enough armor, smoke, great AI, good AT, .... its the best chice you could make in this game.
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donofsandiego
25 Oct 2021, 12:25 PM
#58
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jump backJump back to quoted post25 Oct 2021, 06:15 AMullumulu



wtf....i even explained what i mean with "wiping sqauds here and there"


Yeah, but you were implying that he was using "wipe" in the wrong way and that it only meant 1-2 hit squad KO when it doesn't only mean that.
"And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say good-bye to his family?..The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and... the cursed machine would have ground to a halt! If...if...We didn't love freedom enough...We purely and simply deserved everything that happened afterward.”
― Aleksandr I. Solzhenitsyn , The Gulag Archipelago 1918–1956
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C3 TOOTH
27 Oct 2021, 12:04 PM
#59
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Posts: 176

jump backJump back to quoted post10 Oct 2021, 15:24 PMMr Carmine


Lol the panther can run over inf just fine and mow survivors down with 3 mg's.

Instead of smoking the at gun the panther just parks point blank and mg's the models down.

The cromwell cant even reliably pen the panther. And if you force the crom or comet to smoke the panther and have them retreat its a win gor the panther and not the other way around.


Comet MG deal 5dmg, Panther MG deal 4dmg.
Which means Comet MGs do 10 total, Panther do 12.

Comet round has 2.5 AOE, Panther has 0.5 AOE.

Comet has grenade at vet 2

Comet has phosphorus round to burn infantries.

So......
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ullumulu
27 Oct 2021, 12:09 PM
#60
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Posts: 2243

jump backJump back to quoted post27 Oct 2021, 12:04 PMC3 TOOTH


Comet MG deal 5dmg, Panther MG deal 4dmg.
Which means Comet MGs do 10 total, Panther do 12.

Comet round has 2.5 AOE, Panther has 0.5 AOE.

Comet has grenade at vet 2

Comet has phosphorus round to burn infantries.

So......


and even has smoke to blind a critical area from far range.
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