Gren Rifle nade is to powerful.

Solution:

The Rifle nade will return to Brit Tommies, in the next game.

snip

Oh yeah, axis squads are definitely the same size, especially stock units

Oh yeah, axis squads are definitely the same size, especially stock units

No, they are not. Have a look at axis stock mainline infantry: They are 4 (Ostheer Grens) or 5 (OKW Volks). And allied stock mainlines are 4 (UKF Tommies) 5 (USF Rifles) or 6 (Soviet Cons/Penals). You see? A total mess for balancing of small squad sizes vs big squad sizes as it was in the beginning with Ostheer vs Soviets.

Oh yeah, axis squads are definitely the same size, especially stock units

no, they are not. On average Axis squad size is smaller, especially stock and especially with OST. AFAIK all Axis elite infantry are 4 men (obers, JLIs, PGrens and Stormtroopers). All have extremely low RA though.
Engies are mostly 4men.
With SOV only partisans are 4 men (except ppsh).
USF - paths and vehicle crews.
UKF nobody after bolster.

no, they are not. On average Axis squad size is smaller, especially stock and especially with OST. AFAIK all Axis elite infantry are 4 men (obers, JLIs, PGrens and Stormtroopers). All have extremely low RA though.
Engies are mostly 4men.
With SOV only partisans are 4 men (except ppsh).
USF - paths and vehicle crews.
UKF nobody after bolster.

That was only true for Vanilla. Counting in doctrinal units you have squad sizes from 4-6, at every faction with the exception

I'm aware. I know sarcasm doesn't translate well but it didn't take 5,000 games of CoH 2 for me to realize that 4 doesn't equal 7.

USF - paths and vehicle crews.

+ major with only three men

UKF nobody after bolster.

Assault Officer with vet0 or vet1 and Infiltration commandos emerging at a building (three men)

I'm aware. I know sarcasm doesn't translate well but it didn't take 5,000 games of CoH 2 for me to realize that 4 doesn't equal 7.

Yeah sorry, sarcasm is hard to understand if you only have the written word.

My basic message: Because of 4-man-support weapons at UKF/USF and for example the very popular 6 man PFs which are used as a better mainline unit (G43/snare/flare for sight) the line got smudged. Early game UKF vs OKW can be exactly the opposite with mainly 5 to 6 man squads at axis side and purely 4 man squads at allied side.
Osttruppen were quite popular for some time too and did the same thing for Ostheer.

Maybe they should have sticked to the concept and made all axis squads with 4 man and allied squads / support weapons at least with 5 man from the start. But its just too late for a change.

+ major with only three men
Assault Officer with vet0 or vet1 and Infiltration commandos emerging at a building (three men)

Infiltration commandoes absolutely does not count. They're a five man squad that just needs reinforcing, not a three man squad.

Infiltration commandoes absolutely does not count. They're a five man squad that just needs reinforcing, not a three man squad.

I guess the three man commandos that got a grenade in their face after their insertion would say otherwise. Since they hit combat with only three man at the moment of their insertion out of an ambient building its not irrelevant and a part of balance. It is just not relevant anymore thereafter, there is only a time window where it is relevant.

I guess the three man commandos that got a grenade in their face after their insertion would say otherwise. Since they hit combat with only three man at the moment of their insertion out of an ambient building its not irrelevant and a part of balance. It is just not relevant anymore thereafter, there is only a time window where it is relevant.

So are you saying they should be five man out of the gate or what?

So are you saying they should be five man out of the gate or what?

Did I suggested that? No I didn't, the damage output would be too high. It was just one example of an allied unit that breaks the vanilla mechanic of squad sizes.

The originally concept/mechanic was four man squad vs six man squads and four man support weapons vs six man suppor tweapons. The rifle nade fitted that concept well. You always had a good chance to get an grenade off at range before Maxim pinned you down to kill some of the crew for example. But this concept got violated in many ways and holds little water atm. To keep the example of the MG: The grenade rifle is a lot better at assaulting Vickers or .50cal because of their small crews. Something that just didn't existed as Rifle Nades were given to grens.

To be honest i have a huge issue with this aswell , in teamgames this get's spammed so much it's ridiculous that my rifleman can't even win one engagement behind green cover before being spammed with these things. 70% off the time they don't say grenade and it's to easy to fucking fake rifle nades imo you should not even be able to cancel it once you pulled the trigger.

It's the only nade in this entire game that is not obvious and can be fired from 25 feet away and still be more devastating then a damn normal nade while your infantry squads don't even call out the damn nade in the first place and get close to WIPED.

rifle nade is some bs.. that long range shooting over objects and the instant explosion. in team games this shit so op its not funny. wish grens had a regular type of nade.

grens excell at mid to long range, if you want to remove rifle nade, you gotta tune the gren for close range, which could be interesting, but alas i think, like every nade ingame, it has pros and cons

The only problem with the rifle nade on grens is that it's bugged. Balance wise it's quite normal and not OP in the slightest. The nade not getting called out, the animation bugging out, etc. are the problems, but they have nothing to do with the performance of the nade itself.

grens excell at mid to long range, if you want to remove rifle nade, you gotta tune the gren for close range, which could be interesting, but alas i think, like every nade ingame, it has pros and cons

Both Axis mainlines deny cover for prolongued times in way to effective ways.
i don't need to hear 20x times grenade in my ears when a grenadier is spamming fake rifle nades.
On top if i start a fight against a grenadier behind green cover on long range these rifle nades deny cover in a instant to just snipe more models off or just almost wipe the squad i had multiple instances in one game where a 5 men rifleman squad behind green cover get's butchered to 2 men 15% Hp squads with one rifle nade behind green cover.

But whatever best design "Axis" like always. Everytime i play that side anyway i fall a'sleep , must be the reason why im twice ranked higher with axis over allies simple , overly effective and just geniusly designed with no downsides.

Personally I would rather they increase the AOE of all grenades (Say Bundle Grenade level for example) but cap the damage to 2-3 models only. Anything that outrights delete entire squads shouldn't exist.

I am Ok with RNG normally but not to the extent that COH 2 takes it. Sometimes a direct mortar shot will do no damage, other times it will instantly delete squads.

Same with Grenades they either delete entire squads (which can determine the flow of an entire match) or they do nothing (this is assuming cover being equal).

I would rather have more consistent less punishing grenades than the current lottery system we have now where entire squads are deleted. At that point COH 2 becomes less about skill and more about luck. Especially when animations don't play half the time or infantry refuse to respond to movement commands due to being stuck in some prior animation.

I think it's important to distinguish balance from fun/design/fairness. The rifle Grenade isn't necessarily imbalanced, but it's really frustrating to play against because it has no fuse, has a very subtle animation, and its buggy alerts/animations that seem to not play have the time. So it can result in some really unfair squad wipes. Such as a rifle grenade firing over a shot-blocker out of sight, and then instantly wiping a clumped squad before it's possible to dodge. I think it would be much better designed and less frustrating to use if it had a wider blast radius but with a short fuse when it landed so it was less of an instant ultra-precise long-range squadwiper.

Bugged Grenade callouts are less punishing for other grenades because they have fuses, more visible animations, and are more predictable in close range engagements instead of long range. But overall I think grenades are poorly designed in Coh2 compared to Coh1. Grenades were far more interesting and fair in Coh1 when they had devastating AOE, but with inaccurate scattering so that they were actually about punishing blobs instead of being used to get cheesy squad wipes on a clumped squad praying that your opponent is not paying attention, or wiping HMG teams from the front. That's not going to change but I hope the role of grenades are re-examined for Coh3.

Personally I would rather they increase the AOE of all grenades (Say Bundle Grenade level for example) but cap the damage to 2-3 models only. Anything that outrights delete entire squads shouldn't exist.

Lofty idea but far more punishing against smaller squads

The animation itself is what's bugged sometimes though. I've seen grens fire their riflenade standing up. Saw it in a replay the other day I'll see if I can find it

I also think the bug hurts more with rifle nades cause of the detonation on impact. However if they fixed the bugs the riflenade would be pretty average (if it isn't already) Iirc it has the smallest kill radius of any grenade

I can also confirm that the grens will sometimes will be standing and will fire the grenade. The only way to notice this is that one of the grens will have a rifle grenade at the end of his gun. Of course in the middle of a match if your fighting grens you probably wont notice if one of the models has a rifle grenade on his gun.