Gren Rifle nade is to powerful.

80% of the time it isn't called out, it has enormous range and has to be predicted to dodge, it basically wins engagements, it's useful the entire game, and if you predict where you're enemy is going to move if he sees your gren squat down, that's a squad wipe. It has to have its damage nerfed, it shouldnt kill squads without warning. Seeing as how the AI likes to bunch up, it's guaranteed to be useful.

80% of the time it isn't called out, it has enormous range and has to be predicted to dodge, it basically wins engagements, it's useful the entire game, and if you predict where you're enemy is going to move if he sees your gren squat down, that's a squad wipe. It has to have its damage nerfed, it shouldnt kill squads without warning. Seeing as how the AI likes to bunch up, it's guaranteed to be useful.

While it has its advantages (namely, that you can launch it from behind shot blockers), it isn’t super punishing if you’re in cover unless you have really bad rng.

It can be frustrating, but I’m okay with it. You just have to be very aware any time you’re near their grens.

Truthfully, I find the Pgren grenade to be much worse, especially for special weapons teams.

Gren rifle nade is destructive and long range and the call is bugged out most of the time, it's quite fine. If you see it, it's super easy to dodge. If you're in green cover and you see that you won't be able to dodge the nade, stay in green cover for 50% dmg reduction. Most wipes happen due to leaving green cover --> the squad is still somewhat clumped up --> wipe.

Point is, it's biggest benefit is the bug, nothing else. As is, it's quite normal and nothing OP

np, when you are ok with having 4 man main line as well, then we can ditch the rifle nade too

The only thing that pisses me off with grens is faust with the range bulletin. Is it like 22 range or something? That thing should be illegal lol

Gren nade is fine (All grenade call outs tend to bug or you get the awful UKF warning) and has a huge telegraph of a man sticking his rifle butt into the ground. More dangerous imho is when they use regular model 24 grenades and you are looking for the wrong telegraph or not at all, thinking you're inside min range.

the rifle grenade is pretty great, when it hits, it feels like the damage is more consistent than damn guard nades

Gren nade is fine (All grenade call outs tend to bug or you get the awful UKF warning) and has a huge telegraph of a man sticking his rifle butt into the ground.

The animation itself is what's bugged sometimes though. I've seen grens fire their riflenade standing up. Saw it in a replay the other day I'll see if I can find it

I also think the bug hurts more with rifle nades cause of the detonation on impact. However if they fixed the bugs the riflenade would be pretty average (if it isn't already) Iirc it has the smallest kill radius of any grenade

the rifle grenade is pretty great, when it hits, it feels like the damage is more consistent than damn guard nades

it is better to check stat than to "feel" that damage

it is better to check stat than to "feel" that damage

The stats trying to explain why shock troop nades do more damage than guard nades while arming considerably faster

If I fail to dodge a nade, I'm mad, but I know it's my fault.

That said, there are 2 nades I get caught by routinely:

• Bundle Nade: The area of effect is so huge, I receive substantial damage even when dodging.
  
• Rifle Nade: either the animation bugs out or I hear the audio warning when the grenade is halfway there already
  

I have a lot of issues with rifle nade. It's been that way since the game launched, they've always felt kind of cheap. People called the rifle nade a nuke, but I see more wipes (me or opponent as axis) from rifle nades. Especially when it comes to eliminating team weapons, no chance. You can usually pop off the nade from within an mg arc before getting suppressed. You might need a little distraction, but it's much easier than trying to do this as allies. On top of that, you get great long range accuracy, so you don't have to get close to start popping heads of the weapon crews. However, I'm aware that I'm in the minority though. It's been that way for years. Most people here think it's great as is, so it is what it is.

Rifle grenade is so powerful they had to remove it from g43 grens

The rifle grenade is stupid as hell and I really wish people would stop using the 4 man squad it's attached to as an excuse for it being the way it is. As a quick aside, smaller squad sizes have advantages of their own over larger ones in that they bleed less, they have more firepower concentrated in single models (grens and infantry sections in buildings will always be better than something like cons because they can make better use of a smaller number of windows, i.e. grens firing out of a 3-window building (by far the most common kind) will do more DPS than cons) and they don't have as many morons standing out of cover.

Because of the rifle grenades range, flanking is much easier as you don't have to close a large distance and and risk taking as much fire to use it. It also makes it far less conspicuous. If you see a rifleman or volk rushing up to your squad, you know it's probably going to use a grenade. It's not as obvious with the rifle grenade since such telegraphs are never given.

Furthermore, the kneeling animation is far less obvious than an overhanded throw animation that is present in standard grenades. Also, the rifle grenade explodes immediately on impact, whereas all other ballistic grenades have a big fat orange countdown that gives you even more time to react.

All of this is not even taking into account how often the warning que for rifle nades bugs out.

Simply put, this ability is way too good, especially as something that comes free with tech, and should be replaced with a regular grenade like everyone else or cost more, either via research investment or muni use.

Let Ostheer have the rifle grenade, but lock at least osttruppen panzerfausts behind battle phase 1, or even grenadier fausts as well.
AND pfusilier snares to be locked like volks fausts.

which infantry, beside these 3, start with a free minute 0 snare? none. but alright, a 4 man squad needs it, but then why the fuck do OSTTRUPPEN and okw pfusiliers get free snares at minute 0? real stupid and out of line for the game

The rifle grenade is stupid as hell and I really wish people would stop using the 4 man squad it's attached to as an excuse for it being the way it is. As a quick aside, smaller squad sizes have advantages of their own over larger ones in that they bleed less, they have more firepower concentrated in single models (grens and infantry sections in buildings will always be better than something like cons because they can make better use of a smaller number of windows, i.e. grens firing out of a 3-window building (by far the most common kind) will do more DPS than cons) and they don't have as many morons standing out of cover.

Because of the rifle grenades range, flanking is much easier as you don't have to close a large distance and and risk taking as much fire to use it. It also makes it far less conspicuous. If you see a rifleman or volk rushing up to your squad, you know it's probably going to use a grenade. It's not as obvious with the rifle grenade since such telegraphs are never given.

Furthermore, the kneeling animation is far less obvious than an overhanded throw animation that is present in standard grenades. Also, the rifle grenade explodes immediately on impact, whereas all other ballistic grenades have a big fat orange countdown that gives you even more time to react.

All of this is not even taking into account how often the warning que for rifle nades bugs out.

Simply put, this ability is way too good, especially as something that comes free with tech, and should be replaced with a regular grenade like everyone else or cost more, either via research investment or muni use.

The rifle grenade explodes on impact because it takes longer to fire, flies much slower through the air, has a much smaller AOE, and has a minimum range when compared to a "regular" grenade. If you're reacting to the orange timer on a grenade it is already too late.

The only issue is the bugged grenade callouts.

The rifle grenade explodes on impact because it takes longer to fire, flies much slower through the air, has a much smaller AOE, and has a minimum range when compared to a "regular" grenade. If you're reacting to the orange timer on a grenade it is already too late.

The only issue is the bugged grenade callouts.

The travel distance speed (which isn't much slower, by the way, it just seems that way because it's going a longer distance) is absolutely minimal in this kind of situation and the AOE is negated by squad clumping. Back in the day when squads spaced out in a weird way I'd have no problem saying the rifle grenade is pretty shit, but fact is the game has evolved and made the rifle grenade way too potent as a result.

Also the firing time is also quite buggy and can be delayed or go off quite quickly.

The only issue is the bugged grenade callouts.

Gotta say this is the main thing with all grenades.

The rifle grenade explodes on impact because it takes longer to fire, flies much slower through the air, has a much smaller AOE, and has a minimum range when compared to a "regular" grenade. If you're reacting to the orange timer on a grenade it is already too late.

The only issue is the bugged grenade callouts.

rifle nad also need to deal with larger squad sizes...

rifle nad also need to deal with larger squad sizes...

Thats no reason for its preformance. Allies deal with much stronger armour on axis panzers overall and yet their pen values overall are lower.....


I find the bundle nade more of a problem then the riflenade. Ime the riflenade is only very strong vs units clumped in yellow cover one shotting it very often but is dodges easier. With a bundle even if you dodge on time you will almost always take a large chunk of damage. Also every squad that can throw bundles also excel greatly in mid to long range ai, making the combi even more leathal.

If the balance and relic are consistant they will put a model cap on bundle rifle nades gammon bombs. They did this to mines reduce rng wiped same with ostwinds anf t70. 30 and 45 muni with a good chance to wipe is okay 35 muni for a mine that can wipe not allowed
But one can only hope.

rifle nad also need to deal with larger squad sizes...

That was only true for Vanilla. Counting in doctrinal units you have squad sizes from 4-6, at every faction with the exception of UKF which have no 6 man squads that come to my mind and Soviet that can have a 7th man at concsripts but trades for that by having no weapon slot for additional weaponary. 6-man G43 PFs are very popular atm for example while Brits start with 4-man-squads until researching Bolster. UKF/USF factions have only 4-man-support weapons (MG/AT-Gun/mortar) in addition.

Its a relict from a time where 4-man-Ostheer squads + support-weapons fought versus 6-man-Soviet squads and support weapons.

Edit: I do think Gren Rifle Nade ist the best HE-grenade in the game along with the grenades of Pz-Grens and Commandos (which is the same if I'm right). Especially vs UKF which need cover and use every yellow piece they can get. There you could do much damage or at least seperate them from their cover.