why does the vickers mg doesn`t suppress anything

who is the idiot that thought let this mg not suppress,you can go in front of it with 2 squads and kill it no smoke no flank,or with 1 squad just go and cap right in front of it... it wont suppress only after you get the point,i`ve had 5 volleys not pin 1 squad

Vickers is fine. It's suppression is on the lower side, but considering the faction it is in, it's quite fine.

Yea, it has pretty iffy suppression, stacked with high damage. In the worst case, it kills a model triggering end-of-burst cooldown and aim time, gutting fire rate. Its a friggen Maxim knock off and should have effectively infinite burst time (same as the Maxim, as its a tweaked Maxim). They tried to burn one out and failed. They ran out of ammo and patience.

It can and WILL die to 2 grenadiers rushing it frontally and 1 launching rifle grenade. Or 2 elite infantry straight blobbing it. It takes forever to suppress anyone in green cover.

It can be made function if baby sat by a pyro'd IS, but also needs an engineer to prevent LV rush. The balance team is trying to PREVENT IS spam, not incentivize it and they aren't a good generalist.

The nerfs to Pgrens and Obers nade range makes face bundling not as common (if you have another source of vision) until Vet.

It has also the by-far worst Vet 1 ability of any HMG (used to not even have one). About 10x worse than incendiary rounds as tested by Tightrope. It gets more range and accuracy... on a gun that needs suppression. Yea, iffy at best. Actually CUTTING accuracy might make it stronger.

Yea, its really really iffy. I've found it has to be in Green cover so it can eat a grenade, as its GOING to eat a grenade. Not to mention the plethora of expected incoming uncounterable (because UKF) indirect fire.

It literally doesn't suppress enough to be worth it. It can't suppress a blob, and dies due to HMG 1.25 RA. Bren'd Sections do dramatically better blob control, depressingly enough.

I would really suggest juicing the suppression enough to prevent consistent rifle grenades. Otherwise, massively cut the aim time so the gun doesn't just... stop shooting on model down.

I might have strong feelings about this.

why does the vickers have Bonus Range?

why does the vickers have Bonus Range?

Do you mean for the ability? That's because they replaced its old Vet 1 of 10% more range and vision while entrenched with 10% range, 15% accuracy, and 7 Pen. They forgot the +100% damage when

Because mandatory emplacement is both boring AND predictable. Royal Engineers Vet 1 STILL requires cover. Its the only Vet 1 I know of that does nothing when the unit is used dynamically. Well, except IS Vet 1 and VG vet 4, both of which are +vision in cover and are both pretty static units by the time they get that vet.

In the Sept 2019 patch (last change before the ability change) they buffed its suppression by... am I reading this right? 1.875%? And justified that as enough to promote build diversity from just spaming IS. Turns out 1.875% didn't hit any key breakpoints, so it didn't change the math, just UKF getting bodied after the IS volley crutch was removed.

I played someone who built 2 overlapping Vickers last night in 4v4, he was brutally crushed even with a lot of poor play on my part. Its never that easy vs MG34/42s.

MG34's suppression isn't that great either, but IMO it has better accuracy and killing power than other HMGs especially if you give it accuracy bulletin. But a lower ROF. I would imagine it's similar for Vickers

MG34's suppression isn't that great either, but IMO it has better accuracy and killing power than other HMGs especially if you give it accuracy bulletin. But a lower ROF. I would imagine it's similar for Vickers

The MG34 suppresses about as fast as the MG42 last I checked... It just had garbage damage. Which makes it a reasonably good HMG. It suppresses blobs in 1 burst, like the MG42. Quality HMG, does its job.

Adding acc should just make it better, as it is unlikely to kill before suppression.

There is a magic suppression per second/damage per second ratio, if its high enough the squad is suppressed before model kill. Some HMGs are tuned right to suppress before end-of-burst cooldown. The MG42 has that tuned really nicely, and that's why its the best HMG in the game. The MG 34 over shoots that ratio, so adding acc (pure +dps) is fine. The Vickers undershoots that ratio and just has low suppression/second so it both kills the model, giving the target squad time to lose some suppression AND gives a big enough window for a second squad to just walk past. The gun can't stop a 2 squad push to save its life, literally.

The Maxim just has low suppression. Get 2 and it works alright vs blobs due to massive AoE suppression.

DHSK and M2 are good, just low field of view. Not good at locking down areas like a large FoV gun like the Vickers SHOULD BE. M2 used to be down right oppressive as it could back up and set up fast enough to suppress the squad flanking it.

This topic comes up like clockwork every couple months and was heavily discussed during the Patch Discussion phase, without any changes (this is the Commander and Egregious Balance Patch, not General Balance Patch). My understanding is fixing the Vickers means it becomes a MG42 clone, which would make UKF even more standardized with OST. Something the balance team is aggressively fighting.

MG34's suppression isn't that great either, but IMO it has better accuracy and killing power than other HMGs especially if you give it accuracy bulletin. But a lower ROF. I would imagine it's similar for Vickers

MG42:
Amount
0.012
AOE suppression
0.0096
AOE suppression radius
13

MH34:
Amount
0.0125
AOE suppression
0.01
AOE suppression radius
13

As you can see, stats wise, it has larger suppression than an MG42 but fires slower so it suppresses only ever slightly slower than an MG42. Suppression wise -- great MG.

Well that's awfully strange cause the guides I read about HMG34 said it was worse than the HMG42 in every way. The way they it appeared to look was due to its lower ROF it did not suppress as quickly but could do more damage at range

Well that's awfully strange cause the guides I read about HMG34 said it was worse than the HMG42 in every way

Every way except for Suppression, the only way that matters.

The VICKERS is just a worse MG42.

Every way except for Suppression, the only way that matters.

The VICKERS is just a worse MG42.

I need to double check the stats that were just posted then. Cause I thought HMG42 had better damage close range, but HMG34 had better long range damage
___

Also for Vickers, even if its suppression is bad, which appears to be the case, it was mentioned it has killing power at least? And I know bulletins don't matter much and are mostly for playstyle/preferences and memes, but I thought maybe accuracy bulletin would be good for Vickers then? Amplify that killing power a bit?

I would really suggest juicing the suppression enough to prevent consistent rifle grenades. Otherwise, massively cut the aim time so the gun doesn't just... stop shooting on model down.

I might have strong feelings about this.

That is a pretty horrid idea considering how fast it kills. But on the other side, I agree Vickers is in a weird spot even though unique. I really wouldn't mind if it was made into an MG-34 clone if the Sections were tuned down and granted a fucking snare.

I need to double check the stats that were just posted then. Cause I thought maybe accuracy bulletin would be good for Vickers then? Amplify that killing power a bit?

The problem is 3 fold. 1, HMGs have a RA of 1.25, so they take massive damage from unsupressed infantry. 2, the aim time is long enough that even if it insta-killed a model each burst there is probably enough time to retreat out. 3, the MG has a LONG pack up time and is therefore super vulnerable to grenades, including bundle grenades which all Axis factions get baseline on meta units and rifle grenades, which it just has to eat.

The IS does great ranged AI damage, scales over the course of the game, and can dodge grenades. Why build a Vickers when you could have another IS?

I'd love the Vickers as a MG34 clone. UKF needs some actual blob control.

That makes sense honestly. It seems like the balance devs wants the Vickers to be a bad HMG for a reason then. UKF early game strength is with the IS

That makes sense honestly. It seems like the balance devs wants the Vickers to be a bad HMG for a reason then. UKF early game strength is with the IS

... yes, that's why the UKF meta for ages was 4 IS and body enemy inf till LVs, but IS are expensive, predictable, and dont have a snare. So they keep trying to nerf IS and provide other options, but the other options are horrificly undertuned. Assault Officer (he has no approach vector), T0 Ro.E (still unhappy about vet1 cover requirement), Sniper (slowest reload time of any sniper, and doesnt do shit to vehicles anymore while still being full price). The other early game crutch was the Bren Carrier. Nerfing that (its basically manditory vs OKW) made UKF take longer to tech and extend its LV vulnerable period. Which is fixed by the manditory AEC, as their other AT options are either too expensive or too immobile.

They need to make Ro.E not suck out the gate (bolster, I hate you), the Vickers not a garbage HMG, and give UKF some kind of actual, not super bleedy, early game tool for dealing with MGs. Not Pyro, as that costs 70 munis for your first smoke call down, which has equal range to an MG 42, so you can't smoke the actual gun without getting suppressed.

The recovery engineer change, the snare cd change, and the addition of a LOT more 81mm mortars are attempts to do just that.

The problem is, a good long range mainline, good T0 HMG, and engis to protect it is literally OST early game. The 6 lber is already a Pak 40 clone.

Hm I am unsure on balance but that is good to know. Thank you

why does the vickers have Bonus Range?

Why does HMG42 have bonus damage and strong anti-LV damage?
Why does maxim have much longer bursts with short cooldowns?
Why any unit in game has unique vet?

Well that's awfully strange cause the guides I read about HMG34 said it was worse than the HMG42 in every way

Well, it is worse at suppression (and DPS) than the 42. But only by 10% or so, so that's barely even noticeable ingame and still at the top end of all HMGs.

As for the Vickers, at medium range in neutral it suppresses in roughly 1.56s, when the HMG 42 does so in 1.042s. Slower for sure, but still good. And within one burst. I've personally never felt it lacked suppression (both using and opposing it) outside of some instances where it either kills a model (because technically it has higher DPS than the HMG 42) and has to re-aim or some edge cases where it doesn't get to fire the full burst for suppression or the target moves past some cover etc. But all HMGs can suffer from that.

Overall the Vickers is rather garbage as a MG and is easily the worst in the game. Both MG42 and MG34 can easily shut down blobs, after the first few engagements (depending on map) around the 4-6 minute mark the Vickers loses its effectiveness as once the enemy gets his blob going they can simply attack the Vickers head on and kill it due to how long it takes for the suppression to kick in.


When it does kick in it will only be 1 unit suppressed(while MG42 and 34 have instant massive AOE suppression in comparison) and the Vickers will end up dead.

This is why I would like to see Vickers benefit from Bolster. It would be OK having a sub-par MG if it was more durable and would keep it unique instead of turning it into a MG-42 clone.

At the moment I don't bother with the Vickers at all when playing British due to how sub-par it is since the one thing I need it for it doesn't do a good job at. I have replaced the Vickers in my loadout with Universal Carrier since once upgraded with the MG it does a better job at the MG role and can support Infantry Sections better than the Vickers which dies once anything looks at it due to all MGs having 1.25 Rec Accuracy (25% increased chance to be hit)

Well, it is worse at suppression (and DPS) than the 42. But only by 10% or so, so that's barely even noticeable ingame and still at the top end of all HMGs.

As for the Vickers, at medium range in neutral it suppresses in roughly 1.56s, when the HMG 42 does so in 1.042s. Slower for sure, but still good. And within one burst. I've personally never felt it lacked suppression (both using and opposing it) outside of some instances where it either kills a model (because technically it has higher DPS than the HMG 42) and has to re-aim or some edge cases where it doesn't get to fire the full burst for suppression or the target moves past some cover etc. But all HMGs can suffer from that.

Good to know! Thanks. Very insightful