Commander Update Beta 2021 - USF Feedback

that's not a nerf though. This actually looks like a better E8 without self repair. Not sure that this is a good idea. 76mm is already hefty strong

Why USF lost its identity? Self Decrew repair?
Forced to use RE?
That is clearly USFphobic Killing latch. Know we must not allow to remove reserve armor or disable decrewing.

that's not a nerf though. This actually looks like an improved E8 without self repair while having ridiculous ROF that e8 lacks. Not sure that this is a good idea. 76mm is already hefty strong

That is exactly what I was going for. Compared to the E8 it would have better AT but little to no AI which would allow handheld AT and AT guns to counter it. The lack of repair crews helps limit the overall blob potential. The goal is to keep tank diversity and giving USF player multiple options.

Why USF lost its identity? Self Decrew repair?
Forced to use RE?
That is clearly USFphobic Killing latch. Know we must not allow to remove reserve armor or disable decrewing.

Read the post, the guy said to remove the ability only on hypothetical 76mm with dozer upgrade. Also I highly doubt that balance team will implement it.
Mechanized is top picked doctrine in 1v1. So it makes sense to nerf it, as it was with Osttruppen and will be with KV-1.

That is exactly what I was going for. Compared to the E8 it would have better AT but little to no AI which would allow handheld AT and AT guns to counter it. The lack of repair crews helps limit the overall blob potential. The goal is to keep tank diversity and giving USF player multiple options.

AFAIK 76mm has better AI then E8 simply because of its innate Rate of Fire.

Read the post, the guy said to remove the ability only on hypothetical 76mm with dozer upgrade. Also I highly doubt that balance team will implement it.
Mechanized is top picked doctrine in 1v1. So it makes sense to nerf it, as it was with Osttruppen and will be with KV-1.



AFAIK 76mm has better AI then E8 simply because of its innate Rate of Fire.

It could be forced to use AT rounds only. Like you said it is an idea highly unlikely to be implemented. Was just trying to think of a way to keep it in the commander.

Noob question. Why does the Thompson have strong medium range power like an assault rifle? Isn't it supposed to be an SMG?

Noob question. Why does the Thompson have strong medium range power like an assault rifle? Isn't it supposed to be an SMG?

Because the elite carbines where better and it was a downgrade.

Because the elite carbines where better and it was a downgrade.

Ah I see. Well the carbine is a good weapon so imo carbines should be strong

Noob question. Why does the Thompson have strong medium range power like an assault rifle? Isn't it supposed to be an SMG?

The Thompson was originally designed as an automatic rifle, it fires .45 ACP which is a fatter bullet with more stopping power than the average WWII SMG and it was considered both very reliable and highly accurate. Strong mid-range performance is not completely out of the realm of possibility.

The Thompson was originally designed as an automatic rifle, it fires .45 ACP which is a fatter bullet with more stopping power than the average WWII SMG and it was considered both very reliable and highly accurate. Strong mid-range performance is not completely out of the realm of possibility.

An Automatic Rifle, firing pistol cartridges?

I'm not sure where you got your information from but it was always intended as a Submachinegun, something light and with enough firepower as well as high fire rate to clear a trench, hence it's first nickname, the "trench broom" during WW1 but it came too late to the party.

However there was an idea for a heavier BAR-type weapon with a longer barrel that fired a bigger round, bipod and bayonet even as you can see on this picture in the Model 1923:





And the quote on it directly from wikipedia which you can also view here: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thompson_submachine_gun#Production

"The Model 1923 was a heavy submachine gun introduced to potentially expand the Auto-Ordnance product line and was demonstrated for the U.S. Army.[64] It fired the more powerful .45 Remington–Thompson cartridge which fired a heavier 250 gr (0.57 oz; 16 g) bullet at muzzle velocities of about 1,450 ft/s (440 m/s) and energy about 1,170 ft⋅lb (1,590 J), with greater range than the .45 ACP. It introduced a horizontal forearm, improved inline stock for accuracy, 14 in (36 cm) barrel, bipod, and bayonet lug. The M1923 was intended to rival the M1918 Browning Automatic Rifle (BAR), with which the Army was already satisfied. The Army did not give the Model 1923 much consideration, so it was not adopted."

Edit: Here's a documentary video on it as well, interesting 40 something minute educational piece:

I wonder why AEF has so few Companies with heavy offmap support. With the nerfs to nondoc indirect fire this is a even more drastic problem. Only Armor company and Infantry company come with some sort of heavy offmap support that is capable of attacking fortified positions or howitzers. Most other companies have either light offmap abilities (WP Barrage / M83 Cluster Mines) or none at all. That is a real problem when playing AEF.

With the nerf to Combined arms I would say remove it completely and add a damage dealing offmap instead to give this companies something to deal with howitzers at all, and somehow better with PAK-43 and PAK-wall.

An Automatic Rifle, firing pistol cartridges?

I'm not sure where you got your information from but it was always intended as a Submachinegun, something light and with enough firepower as well as high fire rate to clear a trench, hence it's first nickname, the "trench broom" during WW1 but it came too late to the party.

Read your own article, its original design concept was as an automatic rifle but the issues with the breech made .45 ACP a necessity as opposed to a full calibre rifle cartridge. A shotgun was also considered a "trench broom" so that designation doesn't necessarily imply SMG or whatever you were going for there.

Changes to commander to better fit the theme:

Airborne Company

Pathfinders
M2HB Paradrop--> merged into one ability now droped from beacons
Paratroopers
M1 ATG Paradrop--> replace by a Bombing plane similar to IL-2 bombing
P-47 Rocket Strike

Armor Company

Assault Engineers
Elite Vehicle Crews-->replaced by an ability giving "war speed" bonus to vehicles
M10 Wolverine--> replaced by Easy8
105mm Dozer Sherman ->replaced by WC-51 similar to Ostheer Opel truck
240mm Howitzer Barrage-->WP Smoke Barrage

Heavy Cavalry Company

Riflemen Field Defenses
Off Map Smoke Barrage
Rangers
Combined Arms
M26 Pershing

Infantry Company

Riflemen Field Defenses
Mortar HT
M1919
Time On Target -->replaced by 240mm Howitzer Barrage
M7 Priest

Mechanized Company

Reserve Armor (M4 dozer upgrade & 76mm Sherman) 76mm Sherman
Mechanized Groups (WC-51 & M3 Halftrack)--> Replaced by withdraw and refit ability allow to build wc-51, withdraw and refit AAHT/M20 for Greyhound, withdraw and refit Stuart for M10
Mortar HT-->replaced by Raid Tactics
Cavalry Riflemen
Combined Arms

Recon Support Company

Raid Tactics
IR Pathfinders replaced by observation kit/flares
Airdropped Combat Group-->replaced by AT paras
M8 Greyhound -->replaced by "155 artillery"
Cluster Bombs

Rifle Company

Easy8 -->replaced by 105 dozer
Riflemen Field Defenses
Advanced Infantry Equipment (now offers M1 C/M9 A1 bazookas/rifle grenades for riflemen)
Fire Up-->replaced by cover to cover
WP Smoke Barrage-->replaced by TOT

Or one could add the defensive stance (hit the dirt) increasing far DPS as a timed ability

Tactical Support Company

M5 Halftrack
M1919
P47 Recon Run
P47 Strafing Run
Calliope

Urban Assault Company

Urban Assault Kits-->now provides fire up/incendiary grenades to riflemen
M4A3 Assault Package-->now provides WP for Sherman/Scott
Rangers-->replaced by Assault engineers
Cover to Cover-->replaced Off Map Smoke Barrage
Calliope

Or one could add a version of UK Anti-Building Flame Mortar Support.

Good Lord those are horrible ideas. Who would ever withdraw and refit an AAHT for a Greyhound? Or a Stuart for an M10? Gutting Rifle Company for no stated reason?

Lol

LOL. Those are not only bad reworks, they are ever nerfing reworks. Completely changing Armour company. Removing mortar HT completely. Refit? LoL.

Read your own article, its original design concept was as an automatic rifle but the issues with the breech made .45 ACP a necessity as opposed to a full calibre rifle cartridge. A shotgun was also considered a "trench broom" so that designation doesn't necessarily imply SMG or whatever you were going for there.

I'm sorry my friend but there's a difference between what Thompson envisioned and what was designed in his weapon.

And you said it was designed as an automatic rifle, which while yes he envisioned as something firing the .30-06 like the Springfield, it proved to be something entirely different in the end in what was designed.

LOL. Those are not only bad reworks, they are ever nerfing reworks. Completely changing Armour company. Removing mortar HT completely. Refit? LoL.

Armor company's desined made sense when Dozer/M10 allow to avoid teching to Major.

They do not make sense anymore and there is little "elite" in the armor company.

I'm sorry my friend but there's a difference between what Thompson envisioned and what was designed in his weapon.

And you said it was designed as an automatic rifle, which while yes he envisioned as something firing the .30-06 like the Springfield, it proved to be something entirely different in the end in what was designed.

Nice to see a civil discussion about history here unlike on the steam forums. Very informative on the Thompson as well. Thank you!

After playing around with E8 in different situations I do thing the new „buff“ only makes it worse. E8 gets pushed back even more giving it less combat time. Lets compare it to M4A3/M36 combo.
First point value is for M4A3/M36, second one for E8s.

1:0 M4A3 comes out 40 fuel earlier, has a lot of time to bleed german infantry and to help fend off german T3 with combined arms

2:1 E8 comes out and can fight a PZIV on its own, still it is a draw because already vetted M4A3 does a great job at bleeding infantry and supporting versus tanks while E8 lacks in the AI compartement

3:1 Jackson comes out 50 fuel before second E8 and gives you a long time where you are way better at AI and AT than you would be with a single E8

4:2 Second E8 comes out, it’s a draw again. Double E8s are great at defeating mediums, still M36 has the better perspective for fighting first Panther and upcoming heavies while M4A3 should bleed axis infantry as always and even can help versus Panther if it tries to dive in for M36 and exposes its flank by doing so (or it can shut down infantry supporting the push).

(5:2) If you go for long term games especially in bigger game modes. One M4A3 with a pair of M36 is just plain better than three E8s in pretty much every late game combat situation I can imagine. The 60 range and HVAP is key here versus armored targets, HE-Shot versus blobs.

We have to keep in mind:
- M4A3/M36 combo is 250 fuel to 300 fuel for double E8
- E8 company locks out other doctrinal units and is especially bad in terms of indirect fire

Revert the change please, it is not really needed for medium fights and doesn’t make E8 somehow better versus Panther/Tiger. It just makes the discrepancy in timing and cost efficiency even worse.

Either…
give E8 small buffs that don’t lead to fuel increasement. Think about other methods to make Rifle Company more worthwile. Exchange commander abilities and/or give E8 a skill shot for a munition cost without raising fuel.

Or…
make E8 a real medium premium tank by raising its price to something about 180 fuel and raise its performance accordingly.

After playing around with E8 in different situations I do thing the new „buff“ only makes it worse. E8 gets pushed back even more giving it less combat time. Lets compare it to M4A3/M36 combo.
First point value is for M4A3/M36, second one for E8s.

1:0 M4A3 comes out 40 fuel earlier, has a lot of time to bleed german infantry and to help fend off german T3 with combined arms

2:1 E8 comes out and can fight a PZIV on its own, still it is a draw because already vetted M4A3 does a great job at bleeding infantry and supporting versus tanks while E8 lacks in the AI compartement

3:1 Jackson comes out 50 fuel before second E8 and gives you a long time where you are way better at AI and AT than you would be with a single E8

4:2 Second E8 comes out, it’s a draw again. Double E8s are great at defeating mediums, still M36 has the better perspective for fighting first Panther and upcoming heavies while M4A3 should bleed axis infantry as always and even can help versus Panther if it tries to dive in for M36 and exposes its flank by doing so (or it can shut down infantry supporting the push).

(5:2) If you go for long term games especially in bigger game modes. One M4A3 with a pair of M36 is just plain better than three E8s in pretty much every late game combat situation I can imagine. The 60 range and HVAP is key here versus armored targets, HE-Shot versus blobs.

We have to keep in mind:
- M4A3/M36 combo is 250 fuel to 300 fuel for double E8
- E8 company locks out other doctrinal units and is especially bad in terms of indirect fire

Revert the change please, it is not really needed for medium fights and doesn’t make E8 somehow better versus Panther/Tiger. It just makes the discrepancy in timing even worse.

Either…
give E8 small buffs that don’t lead to fuel increasement. Think about other methods to make Rifle Company more worthwile. Exchange commander abilities and/or give E8 a skill shot for a munition cost without raising fuel.

Or…
make E8 a real medium premium tank by raising its price to something about 180 fuel and raise its performance accordingly.

I quite like the E8. Good for achieving critical mass. But yeah, otherwise they are still lackluster. I think that making it a premium medium for 160 or 165 fuel would be the best course. Or some other rework.

I quite like the E8. Good for achieving critical mass. But yeah, otherwise they are still lackluster. I think that making it a premium medium for 160 or 165 fuel would be the best course. Or some other rework.

I want to like it too, but I can't see its selling point that lures me into binding to this doctrinal choice. With M4A3/M36 combo i can pick whatever I want.

If you want to achieve critical mass I do think the 76mm is the better choice:
- higher AI because of higher RoF (same AOE profile as E8) and a higher number of 50.cal if you compare by amount of population and fuel
- higher AT value if you switch shells
- less armor and health but quite a bit cheaper

Support with an infantry squad in M3 and use combined arms the moment you attack (although it gets nerfed pretty soon). Thats a critical mass (and the only reason to take Mechanized Company). In addition the WC51 offers some kind of a mobile heavy barrage. That is missing at Rifle Company.