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Commander Update Beta 2021 - USF Feedback

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Esxile
14 Apr 2021, 14:28 PM
#361
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

The rifle grenade changes are being reverted due to the lack of user friendliness. While it is an annoying weapon to deal with, it is not particularly powerful on its own with a travel time and delayed detonation. We are restoring the Rifle Grenade Launcher to its original form with only a slight nerf to its reload time.


Someone from the balance team can explain how:

1- something not particularly powerful can have been nerfed to the ground on the first patch iteration.
2- still get nerfed, I mean: it is not particularly powerful but slight nerf to its reload time.

Shall we nerf all flamthrower because they are particularly more powerfull on their own vs cover.
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pvtgooner
14 Apr 2021, 14:59 PM
#362
avatar of pvtgooner

Posts: 359

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2021, 11:57 AMVipper

quite simply using the data from "https://coh2stats.com/stats/month/1614556800/1v1/soviet"; each commander get a score according to how often it appears on the load out in each mode.

Since there 9 USF commander in 1vs1 Airborne company would have a score of 9 while armor company a score 1.

Now one can add the score from each mode and then divide by 4 and see how popular a commander is across all modes.


Or, here me out here, we DONT use whatever convoluted measurement system you just set up to cherry pick stats and we just use the actual numbers from the website itself. We can select by all game modes across different timelines. We dont need the Vipper Model to tell us which commanders are popular.
jump backJump back to quoted post7 Dec 2019, 19:44 PMmrgame2


Panzer tactician is no different than a skill shot. Hardly a "Free" get out of jail card.
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elchino7
14 Apr 2021, 16:23 PM
#363
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2021, 14:28 PMEsxile


Someone from the balance team can explain how:

1- something not particularly powerful can have been nerfed to the ground on the first patch iteration.
2- still get nerfed, I mean: it is not particularly powerful but slight nerf to its reload time.

Shall we nerf all flamthrower because they are particularly more powerfull on their own vs cover.
.

Hey, if it was me, i would had keep the manual functionality but buff it it requires it.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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comm_ash
14 Apr 2021, 16:48 PM
#364
avatar of comm_ash
Patrion 14

Posts: 1194 | Subs: 1

I think rifle grenades could have seen an addition to rifle company (swapping with RE flamers) as a passive upgrade to riflemen, that allows them to shoot rifle grenades equivalent to Wehrmacht ones. Would have made more sense thematically for both doctrines IMO.
Playercard of comm_ash

1v1: Pstreak: - 1
1v1: Pstreak: + 11
1v1: Pstreak: + 8
1v1: Pstreak: + 9



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IntoTheRain
14 Apr 2021, 17:03 PM
#365
avatar of IntoTheRain

Posts: 179

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2021, 14:28 PMEsxile


Someone from the balance team can explain how:

1- something not particularly powerful can have been nerfed to the ground on the first patch iteration.
2- still get nerfed, I mean: it is not particularly powerful but slight nerf to its reload time.

Shall we nerf all flamthrower because they are particularly more powerfull on their own vs cover.


I'm certainly not on the balance team, but I have no problems with nerfing it and think they should have kept the first version.

Auto attacking Grenades are incredibly powerful at that timing, and require far more input (and screen time) to counter than they do to use. Its a zero risk, high reward weapon.

The original proposed version would have kept the Grenades free, but forced user input to use. I think that is a fair way to at least equalize out the amount of APM required to fight them.
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Esxile
14 Apr 2021, 20:56 PM
#366
avatar of Esxile

Posts: 3602 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2021, 17:03 PMIntoTheRain


I'm certainly not on the balance team, but I have no problems with nerfing it and think they should have kept the first version.

Auto attacking Grenades are incredibly powerful at that timing, and require far more input (and screen time) to counter than they do to use. Its a zero risk, high reward weapon.

The original proposed version would have kept the Grenades free, but forced user input to use. I think that is a fair way to at least equalize out the amount of APM required to fight them.


The original version kept the 60 munitions cost to upgrade it and nerfed their cooldown into oblivion.
My point stand, if it was a good idea to make them requiring user input fair enough then why didn't the team just followed with the idea?
Instead we've got a declaration that the ability is in fact weak but get nerfed anyway. :loco:
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Vipper
14 Apr 2021, 21:06 PM
#367
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2021, 20:56 PMEsxile


The original version kept the 60 munitions cost to upgrade it and nerfed their cooldown into oblivion.
My point stand, if it was a good idea to make them requiring user input fair enough then why didn't the team just followed with the idea?
Instead we've got a declaration that the ability is in fact weak but get nerfed anyway. :loco:

The reason is explained:
"The rifle grenade changes are being reverted due to the lack of user friendliness."

Patch notes do not say it is weak:

"While it is an annoying weapon to deal with, it is not particularly powerful on its own with a travel time and delayed detonation. We are restoring the Rifle Grenade Launcher to its original form with only a slight nerf to its reload time."

The cool down is not a nerf to oblivion either its about 14% longer.
:)
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Descolata
14 Apr 2021, 22:06 PM
#368
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486

Im a fan of the targeted rifle grenade, but autofire is better if its kinda buggy.
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IntoTheRain
14 Apr 2021, 22:16 PM
#369
avatar of IntoTheRain

Posts: 179

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2021, 20:56 PMEsxile


The original version kept the 60 munitions cost to upgrade it and nerfed their cooldown into oblivion.
My point stand, if it was a good idea to make them requiring user input fair enough then why didn't the team just followed with the idea?
Instead we've got a declaration that the ability is in fact weak but get nerfed anyway. :loco:


I couldn't tell you.

I'm just giving you my opinion. I think the live version is incredibly strong, and thought the first revision was a fair change. I'd completely disagree with their assessment that it is weak and that the revision wasn't user friendly. Its the same as a Grenadier Rifle grenade, and would most likely have paid for itself with 3 uses. It even had the upside of not knowing when the Grenade was going to be launched.
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Protos Angelus
14 Apr 2021, 22:24 PM
#370
avatar of Protos Angelus

Posts: 1515

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2021, 22:16 PMIntoTheRain


I couldn't tell you.

I'm just giving you my opinion. I think the live version is incredibly strong, and thought the first revision was a fair change. I'd completely disagree with their assessment that it is weak and that the revisi4on wasn't user friendly. Its the same as a Grenadier Rifle grenade, and would most likely have paid for itself with 3 uses. It even had the upside of not knowing when the Grenade was going to be launched.


Is it the same? I cant check right now but I think the gren rifle nade is much stronger. Haven't seen anyone get wiped by the echelon nade. Heck, my volks didnt even lose 50%hp super clumped up vs it a couple of games ago.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
https://coh2stats.com/players/76561198031032150
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Chukiki
14 Apr 2021, 22:34 PM
#371
avatar of Chukiki

Posts: 112

Wc51 nerfed range? r u kidding me????
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IntoTheRain
14 Apr 2021, 23:03 PM
#372
avatar of IntoTheRain

Posts: 179

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2021, 22:24 PMProtos Angelus


Is it the same? I cant check right now but I think the gren rifle nade is much stronger. Haven't seen anyone get wiped by the echelon nade. Heck, my volks didnt even lose 50%hp super clumped up vs it a couple of games ago.



I meant in usage it would have been effectively identical to how you use the Gren Rifle Grenade. You would just get to use it a lot more liberally since its free.

The Grenadier Rifle Grenade itself does about twice the max damage, has a lower minimum range, and no delayed fuse on landing, but has a lower max range, smaller aoe radius, and lower penetration.

In practice the RE Rifle Grenade is far weaker as it has far more limited wipe potential, but with each one being free I think the upgrade would have paid for itself in 3-4 uses. I think the ability to wait for when you want to use it could even be an upside, as they know the grenade is coming and have to keep a watchful eye on their squad as it gets into the half health range.
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GoforGiantsV3
15 Apr 2021, 00:16 AM
#373
avatar of GoforGiantsV3

Posts: 87

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2021, 22:34 PMChukiki
Wc51 nerfed range? r u kidding me????


Yeah. It got overnerfed.
Unavailable decrewing. Range 45->35(V1 : 40)
How Gee......
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Chukiki
15 Apr 2021, 01:00 AM
#374
avatar of Chukiki

Posts: 112

wow, just sad how they ruin a rare unit
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Pip
15 Apr 2021, 01:29 AM
#375
avatar of Pip

Posts: 1594

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Apr 2021, 01:00 AMChukiki
wow, just sad how they ruin a rare unit


The WC-51 was a rare unit? What, in the sense that it wasn't "Well done"?
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elchino7
15 Apr 2021, 01:36 AM
#376
avatar of elchino7
Senior Moderator Badge

Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Apr 2021, 01:29 AMPip


The WC-51 was a rare unit? What, in the sense that it wasn't "Well done"?


Some people play only 1 mode/faction and don't acknowledge that something else exist. It's like saying no one uses the Ele becasue they only play 1v1.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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theekvn
15 Apr 2021, 01:36 AM
#377
avatar of theekvn

Posts: 307

[youtube]avHCcrgvO6w?t=1746[/youtube]
the reaon why timed rifle nade from RE is actually OP buff, not nerf:
Why new change, Tightrope can quickly pump out 4 nades in very short time indeed, completely wipe out inf in green cover for sure.
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ShadowLinkX37
15 Apr 2021, 01:46 AM
#378
avatar of ShadowLinkX37
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Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4

jump backJump back to quoted post12 Apr 2021, 18:36 PMSander93


What follow up? This one?


You know if the priest still has the UI bug where shells land long based on the target circle? Can that be fixed this patch?
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MMX
15 Apr 2021, 05:12 AM
#379
avatar of MMX

Posts: 999 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Apr 2021, 01:46 AMShadowLinkX37


You know if the priest still has the UI bug where shells land long based on the target circle? Can that be fixed this patch?


it still does have the unusually high scatter offset of 0.3 AFAIK. means ~30% of all shots will scatter long (and 30% farther from the center of the targeting circle if overshooting than if undershooting).
there may be a reason why it has this peculiar settings, but i guess it could be tested if the priest can function fine without it. would make the barrage a bit more predictable for sure.
||| ScatterThis! - Tank AI calculation made easy ||| CoH2 Pen Calc - Tank vs tank... who wins against who and by what margin? |||
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Descolata
15 Apr 2021, 05:22 AM
#380
avatar of Descolata

Posts: 486

Don't forget the Sexton has it too! For some reason!
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