Brummbar performance

Stop watching random 4v4 games uploaded by clueless, 15 APM wehraboos then and watch some where people with a clue use them... I know the former are much more relatable, but latter will show you reality you struggle to recognize.

stop being so toxic with your backhanded insult

i have not seen top players requesting further brumbar nerfs. /end

Oh my oh my. We are hitting autism levels not thought to be possible.

1) Watching games =/= becoming better. If that were true, I'd become a chess grandmaster based on the number of games I've seen. Still, I don't think Queen to be OP and Pawns to be UP

2) Tightrope casts in a higher skill bracket, mostly 2v2.

3) OST is not OP

4) You won't see a lot of brummbar in high skill 2v2 games because it's not really a game mode for heavy tanks. Best you can do in 2v2 is KT or IS-2. ISU152 here and there on lane-y maps (elefant/jagd). Even less so in 1v1.
The whole point of 1v1 and 2v2 is to close the game fast, before KT is paired with obers and a Panther or werfer is combined with PGrens and a Panther + a supporting vetted pak.

By your arguments, we can conclude that the USF is the weakest team game faction and both axis factions the strongest. Or that brits are completely UP. Or w/e the case may be with the number of games played/win rates or some other quasi BS excuse.

Just give it a rest dude. Anyone with half a brain would commit mental suicide because of your arguments surrounding "allies OP, axis UP"

please dont put words in my mouth. what's with the toxicity around?

you main allies-usf, a faction build around late game terminator infantry to Jackson. i can understand your aversion to brumbar.

at my side, i main ost and i needed the brumbar for late game control, either defensive or push to catch up vp. please understand

If that is an indicator of "personal comments" then you are constantly attacking personally literally everyone who disagrees with you....

Pls Stop making personal non constructive comments (for the 4 time)

JohnSmith is correct, ST is clunky to maneuver around. Brummbar with its heavy crush, decent turning speed, acceleration and top speed is very maneuverable for a heavy unit.

Yes ST is more clunky and I have not claimed otherwise.

ST is clunky mostly because rotation speed and firing animation.

Most heavy units have heavy crush so it not a privilege of Brumbar.

A rotation of 24 bellow average thus not decent (Sturmtiger has 22 and Churchill 32).

But you are entitled to believe that it is "very maneuverable for a heavy unit"

Top speed is only one factor of a unit mobility even more so in the case of Case mates.
With out rotation and acceleration top speed does not say much.

Well since its job is to dive in frontally, shoot and drive backwards in the same way, speed matters quite a bit. Acceleration is in line with other tanks as well.

Stug-E/G both have superior rotation, mostly long range TD have worse rotation and they do not have to navigate the field to get in firing range. Another reason for it is possibly to make these TD more susceptible to flanks.

Generally speaking Brumbar does feel rather clunky to maneuver. It mobility I would say is inline with dozer 105 that even comes with turret.

The Dozer has some other stats that are quite different, mostly armor and HP (plus some vet later on). The Brummbar also has higher speed and acceleration for less rotation rate.

Regardless of the Dozer, all I was saying is that the Brummbar really has decent mobility for a heavy vehicle. Especially since it gets better with vet.

Well since its job is to dive in frontally, shoot and drive backwards in the same way, speed matters quite a bit. Acceleration is in line with other tanks as well.

And that is why I said that lowering its mobility would be a ill-advised change. It will further restrict the unit in being used defensively covering vps.

Imo acceleration matter more in this case. One can see that with Churchill that although slow it abnormally high acceleration (and good rotation) allows it to get in out of fight.

The Dozer has some other stats that are quite different, mostly armor and HP (plus some vet later on). The Brummbar also has higher speed and acceleration for less rotation rate.

Regardless of the Dozer, all I was saying is that the Brummbar really has decent mobility for a heavy vehicle. Especially since it gets better with vet.

The probable has more to do with combination of case-mate/sort range that make it clunky to move to position to fire than just the on mobility on its own.

(edited to add the Churchill example)

And that is why I said that lowering its mobility would be a ill-advised change. It will further restrict the unit in being used defensively covering vps.


The probable has more to do with combination of case-mate/sort range that make it clunky to move to position to fire than just the mobility.

It's not strictly a defensive tank, its a powerful breakthrough tank that can reliably win a push with just one shot, similar to when the OKW Tiger 1 was OP as fuck a few patches ago, it would roll up and one shot everything. Here the brum isn't as hard to pen as a Tiger but all it needs is to peak, shoot, retreat, repeat and it can do so very, very quickly.

The other tanks that are similar on axis are the Sturmtiger and that is balanced in that it has a long reload, can only fire once before having to reload and is more obvious that a sweating pedofile in a playground, the AVRE is similar.

The mobility and clunky 'issues' are really a problem when it is able to perform like it does, similar to how Ele and Jag not having a rotatable turret and being small isnt an issue due to the damage output and the range. You can see the Brum performing in this video from 4:45 onwards:


(Timestamp) https://youtu.be/wfeXzGUN7PE?t=284

That's more typical to a game scenario, none of this statistics and ideal scenario situation that people cruch on. Games are dynamic, full of shot blockers, sight blockers, flanks, arty, pushes and panicks. It's never just a long corridor with a Brum slowly approaching 2 AT guns undefended to which the brum loses.

If you've gone mediums you're screwed because you cant pen it reliably, you can't chase it because its almost always backed up by AT guns and more likely than not, fausts so you are almost forced to wait for (as UKF) Comets and that gives you no advantage at all as you've given up a lot of crucial tank time by the time the comet comes, and whats a good counter to a comet? A Panther and what tier does the Panther come in....

If its to stay as it is, at least allow mediums to pen it reliably and maybe up the health to compensate for this.

The mobility and clunky 'issues' are really a problem when it is able to perform like it does, similar to how Ele and Jag not having a rotatable turret and being small isnt an issue due to the damage output and the range. You can see the Brum performing in this video from 4:45 onwards:


(Timestamp) https://youtu.be/wfeXzGUN7PE?t=284

Thanks for the video, this is one of the many examples I was referring to in my earlier posts. There's clear evidence yet people still insist that the unit is clunky to use. That's without the shadow of a doubt speedy brumboi, and that kind of manoeuvrability is easy to get out of the tank after a few games. No wonder it's no1 builds on reaching T4.

Imo a Brumbar should be able to push successfully when there no AT assets other than 2 M-42 AT that are out of position moving slowly because they are cloak.

105mm dozer would probably cause more havoc in similar situation.

And that is why I said that lowering its mobility would be a ill-advised change. It will further restrict the unit in being used defensively covering vps.

Imo acceleration matter more in this case. One can see that with Churchill that although slow it abnormally high acceleration (and good rotation) allows it to get in out of fight.

Lowering the speed would allow it to still do its job while requiring to pick the fights better. Speed is not as important during defense like during offense. A speed nerf would rather go towards the offense I think.

Overall I am not sure if the Brum needs changes. The balance changes two patches ago already put it into an okay spot. The main issue I see is that if you go for a medium as Allies and your opponent goes Brummbar, you're pretty much screwed. Especially as T1 Soviets.
Maybe it needs a very slightly increased fuel cost or so, but that's probably it.

I don't mind it being a speedy boi. it's a fun tank to use, as it's not clunky compared to other similar units. But I feel that adding more aim delay before the projectile is shot would suffice a nerf especially when used with a ground attack. It's that manual ground attack that experienced players use that makes the unit so powerful. Quick shooting and speedy armour boi makes it too much too handle. Changing the big manual aim problem speedi shot will slightly help the enemy to at least react appropriately.

Lowering the speed would allow it to still do its job while requiring to pick the fights better. Speed is not as important during defense like during offense. A speed nerf would rather go towards the offense I think.

Yes that is my point , there is number of user complaining that Brumbar is difficult to deal when it used defensively (covering VPS) and speed nerf would have limited impact.

That is why I have suggested a change in AOE/projectile speed that would effect the unit both in offense and defense.

Overall I am not sure if the Brum needs changes. The balance changes two patches ago already put it into an okay spot. The main issue I see is that if you go for a medium as Allies and your opponent goes Brummbar, you're pretty much screwed. Especially as T1 Soviets.
Maybe it needs a very slightly increased fuel cost or so, but that's probably it.

Need reduced damage versus numbers of models (max 3) as ISU have (if i remember all changes correctly).
Too much easy wipes.

Only if the brummbär gets the same Range

Yes that is my point , there is number of user complaining that Brumbar is difficult to deal when it used defensively (covering VPS) and speed nerf would have limited impact.

That is why I have suggested a change in AOE/projectile speed that would effect the unit both in offense and defense.

I don't find it hard to deal with when it is used defensivley, once it starts to push that is when my issues come.

More often than not in 3v3's that I play it is the first tank out from ost and it can come out pretty quick in those modes and as mediums dont reliably pen it, its free to roll around and cause utter chaos.

Playing agaisnt a brum I say that if it doesn't die or make a silly mistake such as hitting a mine, I lose the majority of the games that it appears in (Last I checked I was rank 16 random 3v3's but I lost like 8 games last night ).

KT's, Eles, Jags, Tigers are all manageable but the Brum has serious impact that I can't deal with. Maybe I'm doing something wrong and the problem lies with me, if so that's fine I can accept that but I genuinely don't have issue with any other unit than the brum and no matter what I try I can't deal with it effectivley.

I don't find it hard to deal with when it is used defensivley, once it starts to push that is when my issues come.

More often than not in 3v3's that I play it is the first tank out from ost and it can come out pretty quick in those modes and as mediums dont reliably pen it, its free to roll around and cause utter chaos.

That is problem of mod and patch's direction of "rush to last tier mentality" and not the unit itself.

Playing agaisnt a brum I say that if it doesn't die or make a silly mistake such as hitting a mine, I lose the majority of the games that it appears in (Last I checked I was rank 16 random 3v3's but I lost like 8 games last night ).

KT's, Eles, Jags, Tigers are all manageable but the Brum has serious impact that I can't deal with. Maybe I'm doing something wrong and the problem lies with me, if so that's fine I can accept that but I genuinely don't have issue with any other unit than the brum and no matter what I try I can't deal with it effectivley.

Regardless of if one can or can not deal with it effectively imo there is a problem with the design. It is very performance is very much "hit or miss" and that is why my suggestion is to lower AOE and increase projectile velocity.

Yes that is my point , there is number of user complaining that Brumbar is difficult to deal when it used defensively (covering VPS) and speed nerf would have limited impact.

That is why I have suggested a change in AOE/projectile speed that would effect the unit both in offense and defense.

Fair enough. My misunderstanding then.

Lowering the speed would allow it to still do its job while requiring to pick the fights better. Speed is not as important during defense like during offense. A speed nerf would rather go towards the offense I think.

Overall I am not sure if the Brum needs changes. The balance changes two patches ago already put it into an okay spot. The main issue I see is that if you go for a medium as Allies and your opponent goes Brummbar, you're pretty much screwed. Especially as T1 Soviets.
Maybe it needs a very slightly increased fuel cost or so, but that's probably it.

Yap dont forget allies also have strong AT rockets strafe. and brumbar has to hit larger infantry squad.

Therefore the concentration on brumbar fast decrewing ATG is misguided. Imo it is as fast decrewing as centuar, kv8, comet, even shermans.

my brumbar is used more to clear allies dig in mg or sandbag infantry. or to protect my paks as they fight against 60TD or simply a deterrance against allies infantry blob play.

ATG is 2nd secondary for brumbar, only when i see allies ATG are too far unprotected then i try to move in.


Also im sure manual firing brumbar on the move, will cause the shot to under/over hit most of the time

Fair enough. My misunderstanding then.

No problem, maybe I was not clear enough.