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Rework 3vs3 and 4vs4 maps

3 Jan 2021, 21:44 PM
#1
avatar of Donald D.

Posts: 14

Crap like redball express should be removed and other maps reworked. To many maps are too small and have not enough space for flanking maneuvers. Games on these maps are boring as hell.
3 Jan 2021, 22:38 PM
#2
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2155 | Subs: 2

Yes from this view of play statistics in 2018, Red Ball is clearly garbage and should be removed. I mean it is only played 4 times more often than Vielsalm. /s



Just trying to point out that every player has a different view of maps. It is not Black and White.
3 Jan 2021, 23:02 PM
#3
avatar of Donald D.

Posts: 14

Most guys in 4vs4 are camping with mgs, mortars, etc. And this map is very good for this playstyle, because its very hard to flank. Thats the reason its played often. For me its a static boring gameplay. Has more in common more with ww1 frontlines than ww2 combat.

General Mud is a good map but too hard for many players. Because of the wide open map.
3 Jan 2021, 23:53 PM
#4
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2155 | Subs: 2

Yes Red Ball favors static play with team weapons. But the chart shows that of the 6,000 players we may have in one day, 5,800 want to play Red Ball. So should we remove the map for the 200 that do not want to play it?

That is the trade off.

On a side note, that is why we developed White Ball. To be the same size and feel of Red Ball but allow more dynamic play styles. I only say that to let you know that people are trying to find the best of both play styles. You are not being ignored.
4 Jan 2021, 00:09 AM
#5
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1958

Most guys in 4vs4 are camping with mgs, mortars, etc. And this map is very good for this playstyle, because its very hard to flank. Thats the reason its played often. For me its a static boring gameplay. Has more in common more with ww1 frontlines than ww2 combat.

General Mud is a good map but too hard for many players. Because of the wide open map.


Well, you can always play Vielsalm instead of Red Ball. Most of us don't veto Red Ball because it is not at all unbalanced.

Vielsalm seems like it should be a better map than it is, but always turns into a weird 2v2, with an odd spot in the middle. Lorch is weird because of the fact that few people can count past three, so they don't know what to do with the extra VP's. Lanzerath is still much worse from the bottom instead of the top. La Gleize is worse from the top than the bottom because of the difficulty in approaching the center VP, and the terrain is worse for units like the SU85 and ISU, that don't like sloping terrain.

Port of Hamburg needs the canals shrunk and moved away from the center VP. It's the only surprise on the list, probably because the other maps are more deserving of vetoes.

Mud isn't too hard. It's too big so it favors tanks like Panthers over everything else. All the mud makes long range infantry important, so most of us veto it as allied and want it as axis.

In short, Rosbone's graphic makes sense because of the balance of the maps, not because people want to camp with MG's and mortars.

The couple new maps like White Ball are really good, but my guess is that the few people that make maps have to put in hundreds of hours to make a map play like that.
4 Jan 2021, 00:27 AM
#6
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2155 | Subs: 2

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 00:09 AMGrumpy
In short, Rosbone's graphic makes sense because of the balance of the maps, not because people want to camp with MG's and mortars.

The couple new maps like White Ball are really good, but my guess is that the few people that make maps have to put in hundreds of hours to make a map play like that.

I like everything you said in your post. And appreciate your comments on all the maps!

The weird thing with making a 4v4 map is that it is the easiest to make. The area around the fuels needs to be balanced. The middle VP needs to be pretty open, but not too open for ELE/JAGD. And dont put a lot of sight blockers between the base and the fuel. So the middle 128 meters is all the really matters.

The problem is getting the map tested and Relic limiting us to how often we can add maps. So you only get one shot at it. You cant make any crazy interesting maps like Lorch. Because it may be the only map added for 2 or 3 years. So you have to make it a little boring and generic so it plays best for everyone.

And testing a 4v4 map is extremely hard for balance. Getting 8 players with the same skill set to play is impossible. So it is almost not needed. It is good to find the big bugs and see how players 'feel' the map though.

MY ACTUAL POINT
Anyone can crank out a 4v4 map in a week or two if it is not too complicated. We have a lot of new mappers that are cutting their teeth on 1v1 and 2v2 maps right now. It would be great to see them make some 3v3 and 4v4 maps if we ever get a hint from Relic about another map patch.

And of course my constant broken record line I always use "WE NEED A MAP MAKING CONTEST". Maybe not make it super huge like the 2v2. Just something small but big enough to get some players interested in playing the maps for testing.
4 Jan 2021, 02:16 AM
#7
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 00:09 AMGrumpy


snip


Lorch actually plays surprisingly well as long as you don't get jailed in the 1v1 arena in the south.
4 Jan 2021, 04:24 AM
#8
avatar of Grumpy

Posts: 1958



Lorch actually plays surprisingly well as long as you don't get jailed in the 1v1 arena in the south.


But this is exactly what people don't understand.

The mid is a bit of a scrum ruled by Elephants, JT's, and SU85's.
Vaz
4 Jan 2021, 04:33 AM
#9
avatar of Vaz

Posts: 1158

I'd like to see more large team maps encourage team play by the design. Perhaps setting up cut-off's that require multiple people to fight/gaurd. Instead of 2 fuel points, there is one. Less total points to capture, so resources don't get super high and we aren't cranking out heavies like they aren't expensive.
4 Jan 2021, 05:21 AM
#10
avatar of Letzte Bataillon

Posts: 195

Nordwind is my favorite map and Red Ball Express my least favorite. That graph is disconcerting.



The game has really good mechanics and I feel that it is severely hurt by the small variety of maps.


We should focus on custom games more I think. It takes more effort to set up but custom maps can be used and teams can be arranged more effectively.
4 Jan 2021, 06:15 AM
#11
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

imo lazerenth ambush is the worst of the lot.
uinlike red ball, LA is split into indestructible lanes, favoring soviets the most.

general mud and viselam are huge maps with terran slowdowns. factions with forward reinforce do better. probably the worst map for Ost, small squad size->retreat.
4 Jan 2021, 06:19 AM
#12
avatar of mrgame2

Posts: 1794

imo, can we get a new 3v3 map from the next map patch? something like across the rhine.

angermunde needs to go! no one like laney maps with indestructible lanes.


why does relic not put these many maps in coh2

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1092465331
4 Jan 2021, 08:00 AM
#13
avatar of Baba

Posts: 600

CHANGE THE TITLE

2v2, 3v3, 4v4

YA CUNT
4 Jan 2021, 13:59 PM
#14
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 321

Crap like redball express should be removed and other maps reworked. To many maps are too small and have not enough space for flanking maneuvers. Games on these maps are boring as hell.


Have you tried Steel division 2, since you like realism in distance and weapon effectiveness?
4 Jan 2021, 14:08 PM
#15
avatar of Flying Dustbin

Posts: 270 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 04:33 AMVaz
Instead of 2 fuel points, there is one.


Considering the amount of players I've met who freak out if you don't capture both fuel points by 5 minutes, having only one fuel would push them over the edge.
Having more maps with unique features would be cool, Lorch is probably my favourite 4v4.
4 Jan 2021, 14:09 PM
#16
avatar of Donald D.

Posts: 14



Have you tried Steel division 2, since you like realism in distance and weapon effectiveness?


170 hours playtime. The controls are a pain in the ass and i like to watch my units in combat action instead of watching tiny symbols on a big map.
4 Jan 2021, 18:04 PM
#17
avatar of Aarotron

Posts: 563

Im quite suprised how little general mud is played.
4 Jan 2021, 18:35 PM
#18
avatar of Rosbone

Posts: 2155 | Subs: 2

Here are some newer values from SiphonX stats:





NOTE: I imagine some of the freshness of Road to Arnhem and White Ball has worn off and they may have fallen down a little since these stats were looked at.
4 Jan 2021, 22:15 PM
#19
avatar of TheGentlemenTroll

Posts: 1044 | Subs: 1

Here are some newer values from SiphonX stats:
snip


Gen Mud, Steppes should be removed from 3v3. IMO terrible 3v3 maps.
Vieslam has been on my permanent veto list since it came out and will never leave it, so I can't speak if it is any better than when it had those stupid mines in the middle.

jump backJump back to quoted post4 Jan 2021, 04:24 AMGrumpy


But this is exactly what people don't understand.

The mid is a bit of a scrum ruled by Elephants, JT's, and SU85's.


I forget what's middle, there's a muni point and VP right? Idk why it seems like 3 people like to stack up there, especially since the north can be a lot of fun. My biggest problem is in the South you have to hope the guy you are facing is semi-competent in a 1v1 (pretty rare in 4v4 honestly) or else you'll just end up bored.
5 Jan 2021, 08:25 AM
#20
avatar of JulianSnow

Posts: 321

170 hours playtime. The controls are a pain in the ass and i like to watch my units in combat action instead of watching tiny symbols on a big map.


Yea, thats something huh. Same with HoI, but then again CoH isn't aiming to be 100% realistic which is the cause that some guns/maps are the way they are.

Im quite suprised how little general mud is played.


Everyone vetoes this map, including me.
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SHOUT IT OUT!

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Rosbone: I would like to join in celebration with the 9% of Coh3 MP players who are getting ALL of the new maps. Woohoo! #3Tards
Last Friday, 19:22 PM
OKSpitfire: I hope that at least one of heavies is a like-for-like reskin of the coh 2 ISU-152. I miss that thing.
Last Friday, 10:23 AM
Rosbone: Buy our cool new large tanks that will never get played on the 4 new 1v1 maps added. Perfect synergy! :facepalm:
Last Thursday, 19:23 PM
Rosbone: Everyone ready for some deep penetration :snfPeter:
Last Thursday, 17:13 PM
Lady Xenarra: I'm sure the ppl who defended it as balanced for Allies will be screaming like they got scaled with boiling water, in COH3. How the tables turn.
Last Thursday, 11:33 AM
Willy Pete: I think it was nuts with any engine damage. Especially on superheavies
Last Thursday, 07:03 AM
aerafield: Personally I think without the ram ability, it's worse than loiters for example
Last Thursday, 00:09 AM
Willy Pete: It combined well with most slowing abilities, not just ram stuns
Last Wednesday, 23:36 PM
Willy Pete: Only??? I think not being able to shoot it down and the ramp up effect also had something to do with it
Last Wednesday, 23:34 PM
Willy Pete: Really
Last Wednesday, 23:30 PM
aerafield: AT overwatch was broken only because it came with the faction of T34 ramming
Last Wednesday, 22:29 PM
Willy Pete: Love to see Relic really learning from their past mistakes. Let's bring back the dumbest ability in coh2, and charge money for it
Last Wednesday, 20:34 PM
Willy Pete: New DAK commander will have AT overwatch as alternate choice to elefant
Last Wednesday, 20:33 PM
aaa: Funy thing new players dont know that. And are trying to compete vs hacks
Last Wednesday, 10:33 AM
aaa: Online gaming is trash in general, not just coh. On high level there are all cheats in most games
Last Wednesday, 10:24 AM
aaa: 2 cheaters in 3 days. MH and DH
Last Wednesday, 09:57 AM
aerafield: I am a simple man, I build Humvees with Pathfinders and Missile Launchers inside, I am happy
Last Tuesday, 20:57 PM
Lady Xenarra: aerafield lamevee spammer confirmed :nahnah:
Last Tuesday, 20:42 PM
aerafield: those who know, know: https://www.reddit.com/r/CompanyOfHeroes/s/fPk4yLIgmK
Last Tuesday, 15:40 PM
adamírcz: Might be onto somethin here, combine side armour existing, maps where flanking is a viable option, and hopefully also heavies actually being less manouverable than mediums (lookin at you coh2), and it might be fun gameplay
Last Monday, 13:39 PM
Willy Pete: Shouldn't coh3 heavies actually have insane front armor values? The glory days of 400+ Kt armor wouldn't be as bad when side armor is a thing. Not to say its a good idea lol
14 Feb 2025, 23:14 PM
aerafield: But then again, maybe CoH3 superheavies should actually have insane armor values because the whole game is designed for the clumsy & inept anyway :snfPeter:
14 Feb 2025, 23:04 PM
aerafield: It's like you have to coordinate an entire orchestra of abilities and the correct units, meanwhile your opponent just clicks his 1 superheavy tank occasionally...
14 Feb 2025, 23:01 PM
aerafield: the giga frontal armor also made these units too oppressive in average or low ELO games
14 Feb 2025, 22:59 PM
aerafield: Massive HP pool but reasonable amount of armor is way healthier design
14 Feb 2025, 22:57 PM
aerafield: Say what you want, but the titanium frontal armor design of coh2 superheavies was bullshit. Too many bad players not getting punished for their bad micro because penetration RNG carries them
14 Feb 2025, 22:57 PM
Willy Pete: Also the attack ground with the pak40 looked perfect, that Pershing should be dead
14 Feb 2025, 19:18 PM
Willy Pete: Ahh just saw the other one that died. Some bad rng I think but there was an AT gun at med range for a chunk of that fight
14 Feb 2025, 19:14 PM
Willy Pete: Which KT? I saw one got almost deleted but it also showed its side to a hellcat AND the m5. I think the player even admitted he got lucky
14 Feb 2025, 19:10 PM
Lady Xenarra: I understand that the devs want to sell the Allied part of the DLC, but the KT got swiss cheesed like a COH2 bunker on treads :S
14 Feb 2025, 15:16 PM
SupremeStefan: They should make dlc separataly for axis and alies
14 Feb 2025, 10:28 AM
SupremeStefan: 25$ is actually a ok price for 40 abilites = 8 commanders = 4 battlegroups. But problem is that it comes in bundle
14 Feb 2025, 10:24 AM
Willy Pete: Have they shown the actual trees yet for the new commanders? Skimmed through the deep dive today, didnt see em
13 Feb 2025, 22:29 PM
Rosbone: Big Tonk boners incoming :hansGASM:
13 Feb 2025, 17:38 PM
donofsandiego: Probably not
12 Feb 2025, 14:57 PM
Lone-Wolf: Hi guys. Error code -4. Any fixes?
08 Feb 2025, 17:09 PM
donofsandiego: Probably not
07 Feb 2025, 16:57 PM
SkYisTheLimiT_CoH: any coh2.org admin there ?
07 Feb 2025, 12:43 PM
Lady Xenarra: Ever the contrarian, aerafield.
07 Feb 2025, 11:59 AM
aerafield: I havent seen the new units in action yet (whose BGs will not be purchased by too many people as they are pretty expensive I recon), but I can say with 100% confidence that the Pershing needs a buff
07 Feb 2025, 02:31 AM
Lady Xenarra: I would think lots more players would come/return since there's so many iconic units being added in the new BGs. I just don't want to hear another 8+ yrs of Pershing need buff complaints
06 Feb 2025, 23:22 PM
adamírcz: If I had my supply of copium, Id say they might at least get enough money to not have to wait 5 months with problems that should be a matter of bi-weekly hotfix
06 Feb 2025, 23:10 PM
adamírcz: I mean, its overpriced,
06 Feb 2025, 23:10 PM
Rosbone: Will it help or hurt the current player base is the real question. Should add more players, but may drive many away.
06 Feb 2025, 19:17 PM
Rosbone: Yes you too can play with a persdhing for the low price of $24.99 USD. Or be the poor schlub who gets his rectum reconfigured who doesnt have the latest pay to win stuffs.
06 Feb 2025, 19:16 PM
donofsandiego: persdhing in coh 3? 😳
06 Feb 2025, 18:42 PM
Rosbone: @aerafield Ahhh, I think I made a pershing like twice in my life since that commander is pretty bad in 4s.
05 Feb 2025, 23:20 PM
aerafield: @Rosbone coh2 pershing has the same ability so, whatever. Though it's probably gonna be a 30 seconds ability to make it super broken pay to win, then 2 months later it will get "hotfixed" into a skillshot like coh2 pershing
05 Feb 2025, 22:00 PM
Rosbone: How do we feel about Pershing shooting thru multiple buildings?
05 Feb 2025, 19:43 PM
Rosbone: I am just happy Relic was smart enough to put this out now because the community was falling asleep waiting 3 months between patches. And a new/old map was shown :banana:
05 Feb 2025, 19:38 PM
aerafield: Not even the trailer can hide the trash sound effects
05 Feb 2025, 18:46 PM
Lady Xenarra: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XSvwH2mXje8 Well this should result in 'interesting' reactions... :rofl:
05 Feb 2025, 18:43 PM
Ginaaa: how do i send replay to get him banned?
05 Feb 2025, 00:11 AM
Ginaaa: `just caught cooper47/ maphacking
05 Feb 2025, 00:11 AM
adamírcz: Oh well, I might look it up on dickcord and try upload anyway
02 Feb 2025, 00:27 AM
adamírcz: shiit, saw clean through me
02 Feb 2025, 00:26 AM
aerafield: That's exactly what a drophacker would say
01 Feb 2025, 22:37 PM

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