Rework 3vs3 and 4vs4 maps

Crap like redball express should be removed and other maps reworked. To many maps are too small and have not enough space for flanking maneuvers. Games on these maps are boring as hell.

Yes from this view of play statistics in 2018, Red Ball is clearly garbage and should be removed. I mean it is only played 4 times more often than Vielsalm. /s



Just trying to point out that every player has a different view of maps. It is not Black and White.

Most guys in 4vs4 are camping with mgs, mortars, etc. And this map is very good for this playstyle, because its very hard to flank. Thats the reason its played often. For me its a static boring gameplay. Has more in common more with ww1 frontlines than ww2 combat.

General Mud is a good map but too hard for many players. Because of the wide open map.

Yes Red Ball favors static play with team weapons. But the chart shows that of the 6,000 players we may have in one day, 5,800 want to play Red Ball. So should we remove the map for the 200 that do not want to play it?

That is the trade off.

On a side note, that is why we developed White Ball. To be the same size and feel of Red Ball but allow more dynamic play styles. I only say that to let you know that people are trying to find the best of both play styles. You are not being ignored.

Most guys in 4vs4 are camping with mgs, mortars, etc. And this map is very good for this playstyle, because its very hard to flank. Thats the reason its played often. For me its a static boring gameplay. Has more in common more with ww1 frontlines than ww2 combat.

General Mud is a good map but too hard for many players. Because of the wide open map.

Well, you can always play Vielsalm instead of Red Ball. Most of us don't veto Red Ball because it is not at all unbalanced.

Vielsalm seems like it should be a better map than it is, but always turns into a weird 2v2, with an odd spot in the middle. Lorch is weird because of the fact that few people can count past three, so they don't know what to do with the extra VP's. Lanzerath is still much worse from the bottom instead of the top. La Gleize is worse from the top than the bottom because of the difficulty in approaching the center VP, and the terrain is worse for units like the SU85 and ISU, that don't like sloping terrain.

Port of Hamburg needs the canals shrunk and moved away from the center VP. It's the only surprise on the list, probably because the other maps are more deserving of vetoes.

Mud isn't too hard. It's too big so it favors tanks like Panthers over everything else. All the mud makes long range infantry important, so most of us veto it as allied and want it as axis.

In short, Rosbone's graphic makes sense because of the balance of the maps, not because people want to camp with MG's and mortars.

The couple new maps like White Ball are really good, but my guess is that the few people that make maps have to put in hundreds of hours to make a map play like that.

In short, Rosbone's graphic makes sense because of the balance of the maps, not because people want to camp with MG's and mortars.

The couple new maps like White Ball are really good, but my guess is that the few people that make maps have to put in hundreds of hours to make a map play like that.

I like everything you said in your post. And appreciate your comments on all the maps!

The weird thing with making a 4v4 map is that it is the easiest to make. The area around the fuels needs to be balanced. The middle VP needs to be pretty open, but not too open for ELE/JAGD. And dont put a lot of sight blockers between the base and the fuel. So the middle 128 meters is all the really matters.

The problem is getting the map tested and Relic limiting us to how often we can add maps. So you only get one shot at it. You cant make any crazy interesting maps like Lorch. Because it may be the only map added for 2 or 3 years. So you have to make it a little boring and generic so it plays best for everyone.

And testing a 4v4 map is extremely hard for balance. Getting 8 players with the same skill set to play is impossible. So it is almost not needed. It is good to find the big bugs and see how players 'feel' the map though.

MY ACTUAL POINT
Anyone can crank out a 4v4 map in a week or two if it is not too complicated. We have a lot of new mappers that are cutting their teeth on 1v1 and 2v2 maps right now. It would be great to see them make some 3v3 and 4v4 maps if we ever get a hint from Relic about another map patch.

And of course my constant broken record line I always use "WE NEED A MAP MAKING CONTEST". Maybe not make it super huge like the 2v2. Just something small but big enough to get some players interested in playing the maps for testing.

snip

Lorch actually plays surprisingly well as long as you don't get jailed in the 1v1 arena in the south.

Lorch actually plays surprisingly well as long as you don't get jailed in the 1v1 arena in the south.

But this is exactly what people don't understand.

The mid is a bit of a scrum ruled by Elephants, JT's, and SU85's.

I'd like to see more large team maps encourage team play by the design. Perhaps setting up cut-off's that require multiple people to fight/gaurd. Instead of 2 fuel points, there is one. Less total points to capture, so resources don't get super high and we aren't cranking out heavies like they aren't expensive.

Nordwind is my favorite map and Red Ball Express my least favorite. That graph is disconcerting.



The game has really good mechanics and I feel that it is severely hurt by the small variety of maps.


We should focus on custom games more I think. It takes more effort to set up but custom maps can be used and teams can be arranged more effectively.

imo lazerenth ambush is the worst of the lot.
uinlike red ball, LA is split into indestructible lanes, favoring soviets the most.

general mud and viselam are huge maps with terran slowdowns. factions with forward reinforce do better. probably the worst map for Ost, small squad size->retreat.

imo, can we get a new 3v3 map from the next map patch? something like across the rhine.

angermunde needs to go! no one like laney maps with indestructible lanes.


why does relic not put these many maps in coh2

https://steamcommunity.com/sharedfiles/filedetails/?id=1092465331

CHANGE THE TITLE

2v2, 3v3, 4v4

YA CUNT

Crap like redball express should be removed and other maps reworked. To many maps are too small and have not enough space for flanking maneuvers. Games on these maps are boring as hell.

Have you tried Steel division 2, since you like realism in distance and weapon effectiveness?

Instead of 2 fuel points, there is one.

Considering the amount of players I've met who freak out if you don't capture both fuel points by 5 minutes, having only one fuel would push them over the edge.
Having more maps with unique features would be cool, Lorch is probably my favourite 4v4.

Have you tried Steel division 2, since you like realism in distance and weapon effectiveness?

170 hours playtime. The controls are a pain in the ass and i like to watch my units in combat action instead of watching tiny symbols on a big map.

Im quite suprised how little general mud is played.

Here are some newer values from SiphonX stats:





NOTE: I imagine some of the freshness of Road to Arnhem and White Ball has worn off and they may have fallen down a little since these stats were looked at.

Here are some newer values from SiphonX stats:
snip

Gen Mud, Steppes should be removed from 3v3. IMO terrible 3v3 maps.
Vieslam has been on my permanent veto list since it came out and will never leave it, so I can't speak if it is any better than when it had those stupid mines in the middle.

But this is exactly what people don't understand.

The mid is a bit of a scrum ruled by Elephants, JT's, and SU85's.

I forget what's middle, there's a muni point and VP right? Idk why it seems like 3 people like to stack up there, especially since the north can be a lot of fun. My biggest problem is in the South you have to hope the guy you are facing is semi-competent in a 1v1 (pretty rare in 4v4 honestly) or else you'll just end up bored.

170 hours playtime. The controls are a pain in the ass and i like to watch my units in combat action instead of watching tiny symbols on a big map.

Yea, thats something huh. Same with HoI, but then again CoH isn't aiming to be 100% realistic which is the cause that some guns/maps are the way they are.

Im quite suprised how little general mud is played.

Everyone vetoes this map, including me.