As the changelog for the new patch goes on, I looked at potential new meta commander and remembered that the command Pz.4 had a tons of thread about the nerf of its aura due to teamgames which turns it into a pz4 useless against tank (aura goes from 20% to 10% reduce damage for ALL units within it).
As many already suggested, I think we should revert the bonus to 20% and limit its effect to the unit of owner instead of every units.
Command Panzer 4
19 Dec 2020, 10:28 AM
#1
Posts: 282
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19 Dec 2020, 10:34 AM
#2
2 
Posts: 538
yea, pls!
It is not that a the command panzer is OP in current 1v1s
It is not that a the command panzer is OP in current 1v1s
Greetings from Nürnberg - always happy to increase our local COH pool for local events - more glory: Rankade ladder
19 Dec 2020, 11:01 AM
#3
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
C Panzer needs a redesign since it has become useless (mostly because of requirements and combat performance) but I expect these change to happen when they look at commanders.
19 Dec 2020, 11:05 AM
#4
Posts: 282
C Panzer needs a redesign since it has become useless (mostly because of requirements and combat performance) but I expect these change to happen when they look at commanders.
I think the aura buff and maybe a slight increase of ROF or scatter buff might be enough, the unit by itself it not bad, just no point to get it over a regular PZ.4 for its price.
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19 Dec 2020, 11:10 AM
#5
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I think the aura buff and maybe a slight increase of ROF or scatter buff might be enough, the unit by itself it not bad, just no point to get it over a regular PZ.4 for its price.
ROF is fine.
Point here is that even Valentine has a better gun.
I would rather see change that would include:
Aura split in passive active
Aura scales with vet
Gun similar to Stug-E with range 40
Switchable round to hollow charge for direct fire will relatively low penetration but some deflection damage.
Removal of either CP requirements or tech requirements.
19 Dec 2020, 11:30 AM
#6
Posts: 282
ROF is fine.
Point here is that even Valentine has a better gun.
I would rather see change that would include:
Aura split in passive active
Aura scales with vet
Gun similar to Stug-E with range 40
Switchable round to hollow charge for direct fire will relatively low penetration but some deflection damage.
Removal of either CP requirements or tech requirements.
Yes making the Aura an active like the soviet urban barrack seems a good idea too.
The CP requirements doesn't really bother me, I don't see the command Pz.4 as a Valentine like unit, and I find the call-in handy, but I can understand your point.
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19 Dec 2020, 11:35 AM
#7
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Yes making the Aura an active like the soviet urban barrack seems a good idea too.
The CP requirements doesn't really bother me, I don't see the command Pz.4 as a Valentine like unit, and I find the call-in handy, but I can understand your point.
The requirements delay the unit across all Modes and the unit come simply too late especailly since it has max penetration of 55 compared to 120 for valentine.
USF can get a dozer faster than Ostheer can get a C.PzIV.
19 Dec 2020, 11:39 AM
#8
Posts: 282
The requirements delay the unit across all Modes and the unit come simply too late especailly since it has max penetration of 55 compared to 120 for valentine.
USF can get a dozer faster than Ostheer can get a C.PzIV.
Yep you're right but the need of a Command Pz.4 depends on you're point of view, for me it is a tank which aim to be a support to your composition, allowing your infantry to better perform in late game and thus negate some of grenadier weakness. If you see the command PZ.4 as a different variant of the P4 with other bonus and malus then yes it should come ealier (I think 6 CP good thought).
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19 Dec 2020, 11:47 AM
#9
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Yep you're right but the need of a Command Pz.4 depends on you're point of view, for me it is a tank which aim to be a support to your composition, allowing your infantry to better perform in late game and thus negate some of grenadier weakness. If you see the command PZ.4 as a different variant of the P4 with other bonus and malus then yes it should come ealier (I think 6 CP good thought).
The cost of C. PzIV is to high and can not be paid back by reduction in bleed of Grenadiers. In order to do so it would need to arrive allot earlier.
The unit offers little over a regular PzIV in AI has laughable AT and has is not more durable than PzIV.
The unit needs to be looked and have its timing and utility increased.
19 Dec 2020, 11:51 AM
#10
Posts: 999 | Subs: 1
i'd say all it needs is the aura restored to 20% DR. not sure if the effect could be split up to give only 10% to allied units, but if possible that might be a way to keep it from getting too strong in larger team games.
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19 Dec 2020, 11:51 AM
#11
Posts: 282
The cost of C. PzIV is to high and can not be paid back by reduction in bleed of Grenadiers. In order to do so it would need to arrive allot earlier.
The unit offers little over a regular PzIV in AI has laughable AT and has is not more durable than PzIV.
The unit needs to be looked and have its timing and utility increased.
Then I totally agree, but which buff should be apply exactly aside of the aura?
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19 Dec 2020, 11:53 AM
#12
Posts: 282
i'd say all it needs is the aura restored to 20% DR. not sure if the effect could be split up to give only 10% to allied units, but if possible that might be a way to keep it from getting too strong in larger team games.
We can keep 20% for everyone only if it is the same active as the soviet urban barrack active aura, otherwise I think we should just focus the bonus on the owner to be easier to balance for the balance team.
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19 Dec 2020, 11:54 AM
#13
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
The cost of C. PzIV is to high and can not be paid back by reduction in bleed of Grenadiers. In order to do so it would need to arrive allot earlier.
The unit offers little over a regular PzIV in AI has laughable AT and has is not more durable than PzIV.
The unit needs to be looked and have its timing and utility increased.
It pays for itself the very moment regular P4 takes 4th penetrating shot, doesn't die and makes it back.
Reduction of infantry bleed also is not insignificant, making them immune to nade wipes at full health by default.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
19 Dec 2020, 11:56 AM
#14
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Then I totally agree, but which buff should be apply exactly aside of the aura?
Redesign of the gun or one could keep the gun similar level and make the unit more durable.
Removal of either tech or CP restrictions
Aura now split to passive 5-10% DR and active providing extra bonuses
Aura scale with veterancy
Commander now a time ability providing extra LOS
Can now fire smoke rounds
Possibly a debuff to enemy units available.
19 Dec 2020, 12:02 PM
#15
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
It pays for itself the very moment regular P4 takes 4th penetrating shot, doesn't die and makes it back.
Reduction of infantry bleed also is not insignificant, making them immune to nade wipes at full health by default.
Think you do not understand how this game work if you think that giving XP to enemy units is good for you.
They unit does pay for itself and thus no one uses it.
19 Dec 2020, 12:04 PM
#16
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Think you do not understand how this game work if you think that giving XP to enemy units is good for you.
They unit does pay for itself and thus no one uses it.
I think you do not understand how this game works if you think you can take fights and avoid giving exp to enemy.
The unit does pay for itself.
No one uses it, because its not in overpowered meta doctrine.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
19 Dec 2020, 12:33 PM
#17
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I think you do not understand how this game works if you think you can take fights and avoid giving exp to enemy.
The unit does pay for itself.
No one uses it, because its not in overpowered meta doctrine.
No it does not the units comes way too late and the performance for its timing is not worth it.
19 Dec 2020, 13:17 PM
#18
Posts: 1217
I don't like the suggestion of the aura not affecting teammates.
That would take out a great teamplay effect of the Comm. Panzer IV.
If you want to buff it, then buff the aura and lock those buffs behind vet bonuses instead of locking it out for teammates.
That would take out a great teamplay effect of the Comm. Panzer IV.
If you want to buff it, then buff the aura and lock those buffs behind vet bonuses instead of locking it out for teammates.
19 Dec 2020, 13:42 PM
#19
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Command P4 is fine no need for buffs. The old 20% aura was changed for a reason it was OP.
The only thing that might make sense is a slight cost reduction.
The only thing that might make sense is a slight cost reduction.
19 Dec 2020, 13:42 PM
#20
Posts: 783
The unit does pay for itself.
No one uses it, because its not in overpowered meta doctrine.
I disagree. The unit is underwhelming. Its hard to fit it into army compositions 1v1 or otherwise. If it were a standard P4 with an aura it might be used.
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