I am under the impression that they actually did better than they did in previous tournaments where they where not picked at all...
Damn, I had completely forgotten.[Winter Balance Update] UKF Feedback
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26 Jan 2021, 12:14 PM
#701
Posts: 956
Damn, I had completely forgotten.For Italy! We have outfoxed the enemy once more!
26 Jan 2021, 15:33 PM
#702
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
I am under the impression that they actually did better than they did in previous tournaments where they where not picked at all...
You mean Isildur picking them once, losing, and then saying afterwards he never should've picked them?
26 Jan 2021, 15:37 PM
#703
Posts: 1594
You mean Isildur picking them once, losing, and then saying afterwards he never should've picked them?
Picking a faction and regretting it is technically better than not picking it in the first place due to knowing it isnt viable, i suppose.
26 Jan 2021, 15:38 PM
#704
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
Picking a faction and regretting it is technically better than not picking it in the first place due to knowing it isnt viable, i suppose.
It's technically equal if that's the match that made you realize it's not viable.
26 Jan 2021, 15:39 PM
#705
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
You mean Isildur picking them once, losing, and then saying afterwards he never should've picked them?
I mean being used 13 times in tournament they where used less in previous tournament as far I can remember even in WC2019.
Now read the post I responded to and you will see my point.
26 Jan 2021, 16:02 PM
#706
Posts: 101
If UKF was an Axis faction, the forums would had implode by the end of the tournament.
Guess we are back at WCS 1 levels of performance and we still circle around the same original problems the factions has.
It looks like the direction of the patch mod is to make UKF less frustrating to play against, rather than to make them balanced.
26 Jan 2021, 16:05 PM
#707
Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3
I mean being used 13 times in tournament they where used less in previous tournament as far I can remember even in WC2019.
Now read the post I responded to and you will see my point.
Jeez, they went from getting picked 7% to 9% of the games and their winrate went down from 25% to 23%, incredible.
I did not foresee them doing this much better before comparing stats, my bad.
26 Jan 2021, 16:45 PM
#708
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Jeez, they went from getting picked 7% to 9% of the games and their winrate went down from 25% to 23%, incredible.
I did not foresee them doing this much better before comparing stats, my bad.
Again that was not my point, you have completely missed the context.
This what I was responding to:
UKF did get pummelled in the win rates for this tournament. Why is that? Did the nerfs to the UC cost and capping speed hurt them that much? (I haven't had time to go watch most of the matches.)
So my point it that they did not do worse then they did in previous tournaments, they probably did better that does not mean they competitive in 1vs1.
26 Jan 2021, 16:53 PM
#709
Posts: 179
Ok but is anything about them actually going to be fixed?
Like how hard do Brit players have to scream about their toolkit before something improves?
Like how hard do Brit players have to scream about their toolkit before something improves?
26 Jan 2021, 16:56 PM
#710
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
Ok but is anything about them actually going to be fixed?
Like how hard do Brit players have to scream about their toolkit before something improves?
Main problem with UKF is that they are bad mostly in 1vs1 and do better the bigger the mode gets. So it rather difficult to buff them in 1vs1 without to breaking them in other modes.
Imo not sure they can be fixed without a new design.
26 Jan 2021, 19:31 PM
#711
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
So my point it that they did not do worse then they did in previous tournaments, they probably did better that does not mean they competitive in 1vs1.
They did worse. 25% > 23%
And the problem is that it goes beyond the performance of the players. I think there's a difference between player preference and directly someone who mains a specific faction deciding to drop it all together.
Main problem with UKF is that they are bad mostly in 1vs1 and do better the bigger the mode gets. So it rather difficult to buff them in 1vs1 without to breaking them in other modes.
Imo not sure they can be fixed without a new design.
Yep. Infantry Sections are the equivalent to resource handicap for OKW.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
26 Jan 2021, 19:42 PM
#712
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
They did worse. 25% > 23%
The sample is too small to make that claim and depend which tournament you are comparing with.
Do you have the stat from WC2020?
And the problem is that it goes beyond the performance of the players. I think there's a difference between player preference and directly someone who mains a specific faction deciding to drop it all together.
That does not mean the did better before the preview patch.
Yep. Infantry Sections are the equivalent to resource handicap for OKW.
Glad to see that we agree about a new desing.
26 Jan 2021, 20:17 PM
#713
Posts: 1220
Main problem with UKF is that they are bad mostly in 1vs1 and do better the bigger the mode gets. So it rather difficult to buff them in 1vs1 without to breaking them in other modes.
Imo not sure they can be fixed without a new design.
Main problem with UKF is that they are just bad.
Lack of non doc arty really hurts them in bigger game modes. Just pop out double pupchen and brits cant do shit.
I really dont think long range shells in mortar pit will change that.
26 Jan 2021, 20:36 PM
#714
Posts: 179
Go after the starting cover bonus then. They already beat axis mainlines at long and medium range out of cover, there's no reason they need a cover bonus on top of that. You can give it back to them either through vet or tech, backloading some of the early power so you can actually give them some proper midgame tools.
Expand the stock roster to actually have some midgame offensive tools. Open up the AEC and Bofors into actual side techs that unlock multiple units and/or upgrades. They need mobile arty in some form and better CQC. You can even leave one side of this tree open to start giving them their defensive tools back if they so choose. (Trenches, cover bonus, etc)
Its no secret they aren't well liked as is. People hate playing against them and find them boring to play. Given how common these sentiments are, its incredibly frustrating to see a balance patch that once again doesn't even pretend its trying to fix their problems.
Expand the stock roster to actually have some midgame offensive tools. Open up the AEC and Bofors into actual side techs that unlock multiple units and/or upgrades. They need mobile arty in some form and better CQC. You can even leave one side of this tree open to start giving them their defensive tools back if they so choose. (Trenches, cover bonus, etc)
Its no secret they aren't well liked as is. People hate playing against them and find them boring to play. Given how common these sentiments are, its incredibly frustrating to see a balance patch that once again doesn't even pretend its trying to fix their problems.
26 Jan 2021, 21:32 PM
#715
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
The sample is too small to make that claim and depend which tournament you are comparing with.
Do you have the stat from WC2020?
That does not mean the did better before the preview patch.
Glad to see that we agree about a new desing.
1-
Guess we are back at WCS 1 levels of performance and we still circle around the same original problems the factions has.
https://www.coh2.org/news/102660/world-championship-match-stats
2- Not sure if there are stats for WC2020. The claims comes from both, multiple champion and current best player Isildur and one of the staples UKF players Ashaboy. Someone who has won tournaments this year with UKF (one if not the best UKF player) and brought it to (semis? Q?) this year to WC2020 is telling you that it's not worth playing the current preview version of UKF on 1v1 at all.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
26 Jan 2021, 21:37 PM
#716
Posts: 1594
1-
https://www.coh2.org/news/102660/world-championship-match-stats
2- Not sure if there are stats for WC2020. The claims comes from both, multiple champion and current best player Isildur and one of the staples UKF players Ashaboy. Someone who has won tournaments this year with UKF (one if not the best UKF player) and brought it to (semis? Q?) this year to WC2020 is telling you that it's not worth playing the current preview version of UKF on 1v1 at all.
Nothing short of a major rejiggering will solve the UKF question, honestly. They need a factional rework. I think the Officer has a lot of potential, incidentally, but I think it should be an upgradeable rifle squad that UKF begin the game with, that can upgrade into several directions.
IS need major changes.
UKF are STILL without a stock mortar.
Etcetera.
26 Jan 2021, 21:44 PM
#717
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Nothing short of a major rejiggering will solve the UKF question, honestly. They need a factional rework. I think the Officer has a lot of potential, incidentally, but I think it should be an upgradeable rifle squad that UKF begin the game with, that can upgrade into several directions.
IS need major changes.
UKF are STILL without a stock mortar.
Etcetera.
It's a faction with exploitable weaknesses but riddle with extreme inconsistent powerspikes.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
26 Jan 2021, 21:55 PM
#718
Posts: 1594
It's a faction with exploitable weaknesses but riddle with extreme inconsistent powerspikes.
Don't I know it. They still crutch heavily on a few units (Primarily IS, Comet, and Commandoes, in my experience) But can basically do nothing against some tactics (Dual LeIG for example).
I'm concerned that Lelic won't let the Balans team take the hatchets to them to try and salvage a real faction out of the gimmicky mess that UKF currently are. Bolster seriously has to go.
26 Jan 2021, 23:00 PM
#719
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
1-
https://www.coh2.org/news/102660/world-championship-match-stats
2- Not sure if there are stats for WC2020. The claims comes from both, multiple champion and current best player Isildur and one of the staples UKF players Ashaboy. Someone who has won tournaments this year with UKF (one if not the best UKF player) and brought it to (semis? Q?) this year to WC2020 is telling you that it's not worth playing the current preview version of UKF on 1v1 at all.
I am not sure what you are arguing here.
My point here is that UKF did not "pummelled in the win rates for this particular 1vs1 tournament" the performance was close with WC 2019 and WC 2020.
26 Jan 2021, 23:54 PM
#720
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
My point here is that UKF did not "pummelled in the win rates for this particular 1vs1 tournament" the performance was close with WC 2019 and WC 2020.
I think he's saying Isildur and Ashaboy dropping the brits means more than you saying "the Brits probably did better". To be fair it's more relevant than my opinion too
If we're talking redesigning sections, does that mean giving them snares? (along with some kind of nerf+removing snares from REs obvi)
Cause that seems like the most transparent way to bring sections in line. Even if it takes flavor away
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