[Winter Balance Update] UKF Feedback

Most changes look good, interesting the mortar one.



+1

Idea: Make the 5th man optional for IS for no cost (after researching the upgrade) but it occupies 1 weapon slot with say the "scoped" Lee Enfield (which was basically the same as vanilla). (optional) Increase the cost and improve the Bren.

Then you have to opt between double Brens at 4 man or 5 man squad with only 1 weapon.

MAYBE same principle applying to Royal Engineers.


In this way you have more room to adjust the units without been scared of how much they end up scaling when they are able to get the 5th man upgrade.

Reminded me of a convo we had a while back:

"Attach artillery observer":
- Occupies weapon slot
- Adds 1 model armed with regular rifle with regular stats, maybe give him a radio backpack or something.
- Squad gains ability to call down from base arty the regular barrage, smoke barrage (both with slightly buffed call-down ranges, maybe using a rifle grenade to pop the flare now?) and a flare shot (which would have a much further call-down range than the other two).

I think the current smoke animation is really weird, could they have each of these abilities on separate cool downs, but have them all actually use the on-map base arty guns. As a result they could not be used simultaneously, though you could pop one straight after the other had finished firing. But of course the cool down for each individual barrage type would be global. It would be nice to give the base guns a few more functions.

I would also then buff the smoke barrage a bit to two arty smoke rounds, which would land in a slightly randomised (but small) pattern. Would also be consistent with both the guns turning for the barrage and I guess you could poach the regular barrage code, reduce the salvo to 2, make it more accurate and just turn them to smoke shells. The flare shot would give good frontline recon and let you later on remove cancer royal arty flares.

then the second:

"Attach medic":
- Occupies weapon slot
- Add 1 medic model once again armed with regular rifle, regular stats, medic hat ofc
- Gains medical supplies ability. Or to keep the medic squad relevent, the medical supplies ability is removed and the medic auto heals 1 one model at a time and nearby models of other squads when the tommy squad is idle. As a result the dedicated medic squad is a still a much more powerful alternative.

- Remove global bolster tech
- Lock these two upgrades behind T2

Because the extra man has a regular stat-ed rifle, they would serve the same purpose as bolster and make it more reasonable to have one or two of these on field even when the player is losing weapon slots.

Or have neither of these two upgrades and stay as a 4 man squad with double weapon slots.

Not sure what an equivalent for Ro.Es could be, make them as 5man out the box?

Most of these changes are great, but the IS capping speed un-buff is not good idea, it just demotivates from goin non-4 IS builds

Its the bolster than needs to come a little later, or maybe be tied to individual squads instead of global upgrade

Still, huge thumbs up for the mortar pit thing

Right direction and good changes, but it needs some more. My suggestions:

AEC:

Sight range decrease and build time increase helps Wehrmacht a lot. Seems pretty well and vitalizes LV gameplay for axis factions. But I would go further: AEC as a LV should be more of a support vehicle than a spearhead. Its trackshot ablity is awesome and syngerzises very well with AT guns. But in late game, it looses some of its potency. I tie on Sanders proposal and would reduce its damage to 100, but give it +60 damage with Vet 3. In lategame this would give it a great flanking capability. And on top of that, cause Brits don't have that much reconnaissance, I would add the same observation abiliy like Valentine and T70 have. In conclusion, AEC would act more like a support unit, same as T70, Stuart or 222, but in lategame, it gets the chance to compete with Axis mediums and help to secure flanks.

Mortar Emplacement

Good change, ensures more flexibility and indirect fire support for Brits. But with its low starting cost and the ability to use 120mm mortar rounds with extra range, I would highly recommend to increase the upgrade price. Morat pit already is a strong fortification which needs high effort to destroy. On top of that, 350 MP in total is still way cheaper than every other faction double mortar (480 MP). So 250 for 1 Mortar early on is good, but upgrade should cost either 150/200 Mp or/and some ammo. Otherwise I fear we will see lots of Mortar Pits gettig built in midgame and then easily upgraded in lategame.

Bren Carrier:

This one hasn't been touched yet, but it really needs some adjustments. This thing acts like a light tank, has high armor and can repair itself. All of that for 0 fuel. I know this is intended to give Brits more diversity in early game and not to hinder T2 tech. But in comparrison with other LV, e.g. Soviet M3, this is too strong. UC can push Axis early on cause there is no AT on field. Therefore I would suggest reducing its armor from 5.8 to 3.8, same as Clown Car. But if upgraded, it gets back its 5.8 armor. This would still be stronger than Kubelwagen....

Infantry Section starting unit:

We all know Brits are very annoying right now due to Tommy spam/blob. But we also know, Brits don't have any alternatives in early/midgame to build. So what can we do? Many suggest to nerf Tommies. But this would cripple Brits in mid/lategame. So let me explain my idea and bear in mind new changes from this patch:

Replace starting Tommies with Engineers.
1. For that reason, Brits will have one Tommy section less on field and cannot blob that hard anymore.
2. On the one hand, they get a close combat unit early on which can compete with Wehr Pioneers, push Grenadiers and flank MGs. And on the other hand Sturmpioneers are no longer able to push Tommies CQ while having to face Engineers in front of them.
3. Bren carrier with lower armor can be easily repaired and ammo can be saved for upgrade.
4. When T2 is teched, Brits can build their new 250MP Mortar very quickly to get some needed indirect fire support.
5. With the one Engineer starting unit Brits finally get a close combat unit with snare (after T2 is built) directly on field. OKW 221 and Ostheer 222 can come very fast and surprise you while having no AT. But with the 1 Engineer starting unit, you can fend it off until AT gun or AEC arives. (remember, AEC will be delayed few seconds and come later this patch).

I think this would balance British faction by a lot. Less Tommies on field will help Volks and Grens to fight them, but the first Engineer for free will also help Brits in many many ways!

The UI could be touched up. It seems we forgot to mention those rounds are essentially 120mm Soviet Mortar rounds. Will be sure to touch that up soon.

Brits finally with late game arty

AEC
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Stun shot for 7 sec is too powerful replace the stun with a moving penalty /weapon disable/turret lock affect.

Royal Engineers
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Suggestions:
Vicker should take up at least a slot or be removed.

Anvil/Hammer bonus changed to:
Heavy sappers to hammer, gives the armor bonuses and heavy gammon bombs (removed from IS mainline infatry should not have access to demolition weapons)

Heavy engineers to Anvil provides engineer with 4 rifles and Vickers-K take all weapon slots and repair bonus

UKF Medic squad
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Remove this unit UKF or make it doctrinal already have heal from IS and FA. (does the change apply to USF crew also?)


Valentine Mk IX
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Suggestions:
Move unit to special weapons move the barrage to UKF officer

Remove shared veterancy other commander vehicles do not have it

Lower the penetration of the gun since it too high compared to C.Pz

Churchill Infantry Tank
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Suggestions:
Lower rear armor 180 rear armor is simply ridiculous

Add smoke shell for main gun replace the "panic smoke" with the one commandos have that provide cover status but does not obscure visions to increase the synergy with infatry.

Change the gun so that is either AT or AI but not both.


Firefly
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Suggestions:
Bring distance "mid" inline with other TDs from 45 to 30

Lower vetted accuracy either by base accuracy or vet bonus accuracy reduction or replacing with something else.


Mortar Emplacement
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Suggestions:
Remove the 1 "double" shot of the upgraded Pit be making the mortars fire at different times, it one of the few weapon that can still "1 shot" entities.

Range 180 is very bad idea, in addition bonus from anvil/hammer should tailor made for each path, for instance anvil could get durability or counter fire and hammer could get DPS or range on barrage.

Bolster
This upgrade should only increase squad size and not provide the entity. Then UKF infatry cost can normalized.

im wondering about the mortar pit, so all that happens is essentially is that there is a 20 second delay to get the pit up to full capacity compared to live server today?

and what is the current range of the pit?

Maybe medic aura range too close？

Right direction and good changes, but it needs some more. My suggestions:

AEC:



Replace starting Tommies with Engineers.
1. For that reason, Brits will have one Tommy section less on field and cannot blob that hard anymore.
2. On the one hand, they get a close combat unit early on which can compete with Wehr Pioneers, push Grenadiers and flank MGs. And on the other hand Sturmpioneers are no longer able to push Tommies CQ while having to face Engineers in front of them.
3. Bren carrier with lower armor can be easily repaired and ammo can be saved for upgrade.
4. When T2 is teched, Brits can build their new 250MP Mortar very quickly to get some needed indirect fire support.
5. With the one Engineer starting unit Brits finally get a close combat unit with snare (after T2 is built) directly on field. OKW 221 and Ostheer 222 can come very fast and surprise you while having no AT. But with the 1 Engineer starting unit, you can fend it off until AT gun or AEC arives. (remember, AEC will be delayed few seconds and come later this patch).

I think this would balance British faction by a lot. Less Tommies on field will help Volks and Grens to fight them, but the first Engineer for free will also help Brits in many many ways!

The ideal seem solid with both Ro.e starting and change to UC together. i will take it but still hoping for a bolster change.

Not a friend of the cancer pit buffs. It always was an uttery broken unit.

Anybody tested whether the cancer pit can baserape while being built behind the hedges on crossing in the woods? No need to give that shit thing extra range.

Not a friend of the cancer pit buffs. It always was an uttery broken unit.

Anybody tested whether the cancer pit can baserape while being built behind the hedges on crossing in the woods? No need to give that shit thing extra range.

Now this is Simply not the case, a pit built behind the hedge on crossing in the wood will reach just slightly over the VP.

Anyway, yeah, extra range for pit is unneeded, just make the land mattress stock and be done with it.

Most of these changes are great, but the IS capping speed un-buff is not good idea, it just demotivates from goin non-4 IS builds

Its the bolster than needs to come a little later, or maybe be tied to individual squads instead of global upgrade

Still, huge thumbs up for the mortar pit thing

I would have to agree that the capping speed nerf would just promote more IS spam as British lack in the map control department. UC being able to cap would be a good solution to this. Helps with map control early on and reduces IS spam. Though I could see people spamming Medic Squads for map control after this change goes through.

Right direction and good changes, but it needs some more. My suggestions:

All of these nerfs are going to once again make the UKF unable to compete lol

1. The AEC isn't really a support vehicle, it's more of a proto panther, otherwise it wouldn't perform so poorly against infantry. The reduction in range and damage is to much of a nerf. It takes 3 AT shots to destroy an AEC, and it takes the AEC 2-3 shots to destroy a scout car. I think that's pretty fair since the whole point of the AEC is to hard counter light vehicles, which the sight range is going to already make it less punishing. The AEC is also easily hard countered by double shrek PanzerGrens with their heat seeking missiles that can shut down a 60 fuel costing AEC rather fast. (And ignoring it's still inferior against a Puma) With the exception of the Churchill, the UKF is already lackluster with vehicles. At this point, there's less justification to get an AEC that will delay a Cromwell. Also i'm sure most players arent going to use the AEC late game, so it's not like returning it's damage output at vet 3 is going to be a huge service. The AEC should keep it's current damage output, or at the very least have any nerf replaced with a good compensation in something else.

2. The mortar pitt is indeed expensive. Especially in the early game. It's plastered into the ground and unable to avoid barrages or advancing tanks. They're easily countered by indirect fire or arty. For this I can't agree with the stated nerf suggestions. It's already a little bit of a high risk unit when it can be easily destroyed by a panther charge of stuka, or some OP off map call in.

3. The UC is still fragile, I don't see how it can be comparable to a tank. It's life expectancy is depleted the moment Pgrens or a 222 roles in the field anyway. Heck, I've seen it's health wither fast when Assgrens managed to charge it. It's the UKF's only starting option to counter MG spam. the whole point of it's original armor increase was so it wouldn't die when trying to burn our garrisoned MGs. If nerfed, Brits won't have an effective counter to MG spam. If such a nerf were to happen, it should have an ammo costing option to have it's full armor returned like with the USF's utility car's armored skits.

4. This is actually something I can agree with. Tommy blobbing is just as cancerous as MG spamming, and a starting engineer team does change the dynamic a bit

Please considered about "Base Counter battery ability" from Advance emplacement regiment too.

Currently in Live version.
- Counter battery are unusable in 3vs3 and 4vs4 or in Large map cause its limited fire range.

The suggestions for the Churchill is greatly appreciated since the UKF's tanks are in a poor state and this will finally make Anvil more viable. However, I think the Cromwell also deserves a second look. True, it's cheaper than it's Axis counterparts, but with how fragile it is, the Axis player is still getting more bang for buck. True, the Cromwell's main strength is it's mobility for flanking (Which is more dependent on the map tbh) but that's again limited to the Cromwell's weak armor. Quick strikes and trying to hit a tank on the sides (Which are the Cromwell's main function and a must since Axis tanks do better at deflecting shots) now become too dangerous when all it takes a well placed AT gun and a Panzer 4 and the Cromwell can no longer make use of it's mobility cutting it's main strength. For this, I think a slight armor increase can be justiifed.

bug with advanced emplacement: mortar pits built by sections don't get the heavy barrage

bug with advanced emplacement: mortar pits built by sections don't get the heavy barrage

It is a oversight, since the mortar pit built by section is another unit from the one built by sapper. So what may happened is that mod team working on the sapper's pít while left the section's pit untouched.

as usual, after a couple of days UKF thread allway received smallest amount of care and feed back, this faction is hated.

Still, dispite the scope of this patch is faction's "core issue", i see those "core" problem of UKF barely touched, namely bolster and indirect. Dont get me wrong, QOL change is nice, but outside of change with Bofor/aec tech nolonger lockout, all the other fancy things with centaur, ff, churchill are just simple some stats change, which may look nice at fist, but can be easily undo just shortly later if the community dont like it. I mean, i dont care if the centaur can run a bit faster, or the FF can turn a bit quicker, because those thing can be easyly taken away while main issue of the army keep exist.

What the faction need is at least an infantry rework, and (may be) the introduction of stock LM. These will be and should be the works that if done right, will form a steady fundamental from which balancing all other things of the army can be done not just by bandage on bandage or other trash.

after getting in to modding myself, i can say that a rework of bolster is not difficult technically but at the same time i understand that the amount of calculation needed to balance it out is huge and last time the subject is bring to the table, mod team dont want to take the risk of screwing up. Still, situations has switched now, with the green light from relic on this ptach, and With the scale and scope of it, i dont see any bigger chance for such a jobs to be carried out. There were a lot of ideal on this already, it is just the matter of how far you want to go, mod team. While OKW is having what basically a tech rework now, why cant UKF get something that serious ?

Tested the brit changes for a while. Overall, good.

The heavy mortar barrage seems underwhelming. The range is barely better that the normal barrage, and the CD then shuts down all barrages for two minutes. The damage it does isn't anything special either since only 1 of the mortars appears to be firing heavy shells.

I'm not sure what the intended use is? I think the range needs to go way up to be worth the long CD applied to both barrages after use.

yes finally aec/bofors are non-ex

IS sight bonus from flare upgrade needs to go? sniper got the nerf.

agree churchill pop reduction. but giving it tank commander is big! buffing its rof is too much. imo i still vouch for reducing churhill gun damage to 120 if you add all this.

it is anti-AI, not supposed to rng and match a panther. now with sight and rof, it can stay in the fight ahead of the curve!

FF got a BIG buff, im not sure why. it is in a good spot..it has 200 240(?) damages, cheaper stun, and relatively cheaper...