Future Balance Items by Relic

sorry if I'm not speaking english very well my dear.
I should have known : Don't feed the nullist.

I just have been nullisted.

You had the same issue in DoW2 as well.

You don't read properly and then contrive the discussion with false implications and premises.

There is no indication whatsoever that it is "intended".
The ability used to repair to full, for 60 Munis, as obviously intended.
After the ATNade/Faust patch, it no longer performed this obviously initially intended function.
Nothing in the patch notes or Dev commentary has indicated this is the new "intended".

Basically just you speculating and contriving false premises.
I asked you why you thought it was intended, and not a bug, as you claimed.
You however rephrased the question in a completely contrived way that placed false implications and premises on me in return.

You should have asked, honestly and respectfully:
"Why do you think its a bug, and not intended?"
Rather the loaded and skewed question of:
"Now, explain me why you think T70 shall just autorepair every pfaust he receives."

I know you can't tell the difference Guru. Thats nothing new to me, I saw you do the same contrived shit on DoW2 time and time again. But there is a huge difference, and what you did, was dishonest, deliberate and contrived, and exactly on of the reasons GR became such a shithole.

I was honest and decent towards you, you responded with a twisted question.
Thats your fault, problem and shame, not mine.

It's unbelievable how fast you can go mad with one post where there is absolutely no bad intentions in it. ^^

skippy's out.

I asked you, decently, honestly and directly, for a simple explanation.

It was not loaded, carried no premises, no false implications.

You did not do the same in return.
Instead contriving it deliberately.

When I point that out, you pull the "nullist" card.
Yeah, really classy.

Thats on your head, not mine. I know you can't tell the difference, but its there, and its significant. Colloquially its called being "bitchy" in discussion.

I asked:
"Explain please. (Your words: "why you wouldn't be surprised if self repair on T70 not fully repairing a faust engine damage was totally intended".)

You asked, contrivedly, in return:
"Now, explain me why you think T70 shall just autorepair every pfaust he receives."

If you cant tell the difference, and how loaded your question is with false premises, whereas mine wasn't, thats your problem. Dishonest and contrived.

If Relic comes out and says its intended, then fine.

But nothing indicates that it is. Before the patch it was "working as intended" by repairing to full for 60 Munis. After patch, it no longer did, with no patch note or Dev comment to indicate that is intended.

Important difference:
A halftrack can actually take damage to small arms fire. So even without hard Anti tank on the field, it's still possible to keep it away from you. It's requirement to be at close range to do damage (making at 'nades much easier to get off) and its lack of mobility make it much harder to harass infantry all through the map.

A T70 is nearly invulnerable to small arms fire. And unlike the flame haltrack, works surprisingly well at sniping German models from long range. It has very good maneuverability which makes it quite effective at keeping distance from Grens getting of a panzerfaust. Even if it does, it has a convenient self-repair ability to get it right moving again without the need for combat engineers to march over.

Additionally, soviets have access to guards rifles (quite an effective counter to the halftrack) which can avoid investing in t2 for a ZiS gun.

Yes and because of this FHT is actually more robust and more lethal to infantry than T-70 is. If I remember correctly you need one more AT nade to kill FHT than you need Panzerfausts to kill T-70. Same goes for AT guns.
By the way have you even tried to shoot FHT with infantry? You know what is going to happened to a squad that tries that? If not then do just that and share the results with us.


Now about the idea to make T-70s range equals to Panzerfaust. I don't remember who wrote this but are you serious? Why would you even consider building this unit after such change?

It's not the unit that's broken it's the commander that comes with but I guess that's the desire of vocal German players to nerf any decent Soviet unit to the ground.

Let's talk about true OP and how Tiger Ace destroyed 1v1 as you can quit your game when one hits the field. It's not like you have to save resources for it or anything because it's free of charge so all you have to do is to stay in game long enough to gain enough CPs which is an easy task for any decent player.

T70s where overperforming even before the patch.

Scatter change will Vehicle kiting/chasing of infantry into line, and a range reduction to stop T70 outranging all Infantry counters.

Im sorry, but T70s range is simply too far.

Faust range is ridiculous, but somewhere around Shrek range is reasonable.

Soviet industries change sounds stupid and wont fix the problem with this commander! I think the main problem is the more fuel so you still can spam all these tanks. Tbh i would prefere that soviet industry offers just more fuel production from builded fuel outpost's it is still extremly strong then,but at least ist a kind of tradeoff and you can counter it

t70 doesn't outrange shreks

T70s where overperforming even before the patch.

Scatter change will Vehicle kiting/chasing of infantry into line, and a range reduction to stop T70 outranging all Infantry counters.

Im sorry, but T70s range is simply too far.

Faust range is ridiculous, but somewhere around Shrek range is reasonable.

So was Flame Half Truck. Can you deny that?
What's more from my experience it is much easier to kill of T-70 than it is to kill FHT.
FHT is much more devastating as well.

t70 doesn't outrange shreks

Wrong!

Shrek: 35
http://coh2-stats.herokuapp.com/ballistic_weapons/panzerschreck_atw_mp

T70 maingun: 40
http://coh2-stats.herokuapp.com/ballistic_weapons/t70_m1938_45mm_mp

Meaning the T70 can yoyo in and out, OUTSIDE of Shrek range, getting potentially 1-2 model kills while doing so, while reloading on the move, while the Shreks fire cycle gets reset everytime the T70 moves out of range.

So was Flame Half Truck. Can you deny that?
What's more from my experience it is much easier to kill of T-70 than it is to kill FHT.
FHT is much more devastating as well.

FHT has been nerfed repeatedly, and is currently fine, ESPECIALLY with the recent Vet change.
Its extremely expensive to upgrade, but since it retains its reinforce option currently, Im ok with that.

Due to good balance changes, the FHT window has been narrowed, and its meta functiin very quickly changes from an aghressive unit, to an AI backline/rei force point, which I think is a very successful result from Relic.

I have, and have always had, issues with especially flame vehicle chase/kite potential.
Imo NO flamer unit should fire while moving. Ih vae expressed that before.

FHT is indeed a very formidable AI unit, particulsrly in a short window before Sov can develop proper AT, but it is categorically different from the T70 in ways that are very important for xonsideration:
A) It is vulnerable to small arms.
B) It is extremely vulnerable to ATNades.
C) Guards are an automatic and serious counter.
D) In non-Doctrinal, two ATNade Cons is all you need.
E) You can even seriously dmg it with AINades.
F) The multipurpose Sov mine counters it at a ridiculously small cost, in terms of aggression. And rightly so, since suicidal infantry chases by vehicles should be punished with extreme prejudice.
G) In a situation of even infantry support, or alone, an M3 can flat out dmg it. The FHT does fuck all to the M3, whereas the M3s 50cal does the equivalent of g43/SVT small arms dmg to it.

Your attitude on FHT is outdated by several patches. Seriously. Get up to date and with the program already.

Its meta function has now a much narrower aggressive window, and has relegated it to a AI support defense role, particularly with reinforce, which imo is a remarkably successful balance progression and one that improves the meta in two ways. First, that its aggressive use is severly punished as it should be due to its AI efficacy with Flame, as offset by its high Muni cost. Second, because it improves Ost meta by providing an AI capable defensive reinforce point which imo is inline with the overall faction design system where either HT or Bunker provides an onfield reinforce point to asymmetrically mstch Sovs Merge.

Now I dont expexr you to see that, as outrageously Sov biased as you are. I find your posts overall to be some of the most dishonest and one sided I have read here, but I do ezpect you to update your attitude to recognise patxh changes and how they affect the meta, despite your Sov priviledge.

FHT is now very much in the place it should be, especially now that vet 2 has been normalised. I think its great Relic achieved this despite Commander issues. And they even managed to do it without changing the cost, which at 2xLMG or 2xTeller Mine, is imo exactly where it should be when the FHTs window of aggression was narrowed and it is returned to its backline AI/reinforce roll.

Gj on derailing from T70 though into a unit that the T70 itself hard counters. Sov logic, ftw.

FHT is indeed a very formidable AI unit, particulsrly in a short window before Sov can develop proper AT, but it is categorically different from the T70 in ways that are very important for xonsideration:
A) It is vulnerable to small arms.
B) It is extremely vulnerable to ATNades.
C) Guards are an automatic and serious counter.
D) In non-Doctrinal, two ATNade Cons is all you need.
E) You can even seriously dmg it with AINades.
F) The multipurpose Sov mine counters it at a ridiculously small cost, in terms of aggression. And rightly so, since suicidal infantry chases by vehicles should be punished with extreme prejudice.
G) In a situation of even infantry support, or alone, an M3 can flat out dmg it. The FHT does fuck all to the M3, whereas the M3s 50cal does the equivalent of g43/SVT small arms dmg to it.

Ad. A. Good luck shooting to it with infantry
Ad. B. You need 3 to kill it off but the problem is with throwing them without getting your squad wiped
Ad. C. Guards are doctrinal and still need to shoot at it for a while. Any decent player will escape without problem even when button is used
Ad. D. You haven't played against FHT even once did you?
Ad. E. As said above landing these nades is a problem not the amount.
Ad. F. Very luck dependant
Ad. G. Agree but we're talking infantry arn't we?

I really like that they are nerfing T-70 and Ostwind.
As for Tiger Ace, I think it should be something that he would be in RL. He should have the same stats for HP and armor, but the crew should be elite which IMO means he should be more accurate, have faster reload time and have better manoeuvrability. Is should also cost more than regular tiger and maybe impact the income of resources for some time, but it should not be free and it should not completely cut off income to the player that calls it in.

I really like that they are nerfing T-70 and Ostwind.
As for Tiger Ace, I think it should be something that he would be in RL. He should have the same stats for HP and armor, but the crew should be elite which IMO means he should be more accurate, have faster reload time and have better manoeuvrability. Is should also cost more than regular tiger and maybe impact the income of resources for some time, but it should not be free and it should not completely cut off income to the player that calls it in.

They aint nerfing Ostwind, if im not mistaking it does aoe damage...

I don't think it's intended, self repair repaired 80 damage and faust did 80 damage, now it deals 100 damage so the T70 doesn't repair to full HP, staying with engine damaged.

Ad. A. Good luck shooting to it with infantry
Ad. B. You need 3 to kill it off but the problem is with throwing them without getting your squad wiped
Ad. C. Guards are doctrinal and still need to shoot at it for a while. Any decent player will escape without problem even when button is used
Ad. D. You haven't played against FHT even once did you?
Ad. E. As said above landing these nades is a problem not the amount.
Ad. F. Very luck dependant
Ad. G. Agree but we're talking infantry arn't we?

These are how you deal with the FHT.

Sorry that there is no button you can press to instakill it.
It has to be killed by use of ingame means, same as any other unit in the game.
None of your rebuttals refute that it is killable by those means, in the criteria I numbered.

A) Every bit helps. Takes dmg just fine from small arms, which T70 doesnt.
B) 2 ATNades and a few seconds of incidental small arms which happens whike the ATNade is being thrown anyways.
Pretty good pay off compared to the cost of the FHT. Sov can do thqt, and its the Ost fault for overextending then.
C) Killing a unit is not the only prerequisite for countering a unit. This is certainly true also in how hard it is to kill off a Sov weapon team for Ost. Forcing it off is enough. Guard are present on almost half of Sov Commanders, are immediate as a callin, and outrange the FHT completely. They are by definition, a light vehicle infantry counter.
D) So? 2 ATNades leave a FHT at about 10% health, no matter if Ive played as Sov 1 time or 1 million times.
E) Yes, this one is marginal, but it exists and can be implemented.
F) Mines are not LUCK dependant! HAHA how can you even claim that.
Mines are:
1) Positioning dependant
2) Actively luring Vehicles into them dependant.
There is plenty of luck and RNG in the game, that depend on luck, but for real, Mines are not one of them.
G) No, we are not talking infantry in a vacuum. For a complete perspective we have to consider as many options as possible. Thats why I included the M3, ironic therefore that you try to narrow it to infantry only in a vacuum. See what I mean? Thats dishonest and biased, dude.

I don't think it's intended, self repair repaired 80 damage and faust did 80 damage, now it deals 100 damage so the T70 doesn't repair to full HP, staying with engine damaged.

Agreed.

Im not sure how they coded the T70 repair, but it seems to only repair to the pre-patch level, leaving the small extra dmg from Faust unrepaired, at the end of which the engine dmg is fixed. Someone simply forgot to adjust it. That is clearly unintended, contradicts the tooltip, and for 60 Munis, it really should be repairing completely as it did before the patch. Especially as there has been no Dev comment or patch note specificying it is intended.

The purpose of the self-repair, is clearly for autonomous field repair without CE intervention, especially since it comes vanilla on the unit. And for 60 Muni, it deserves it.

However, while we are discussing this ability, once its fixed to repair the unit fully, I do think it needs xhanging so that the T70 is either immobile or has reduced rste during combat, as do CE/Pios during repair.

Its currently occassionally being abused by repairing IN COMBAT, which I personally view as unintended.
Its not inline with general repair principles overall in the game, in that sense.
Nonetheless, I think the 60 Muni warrants a full repair, just not when implemented in combat.

Fix self repair to full. Cos clearly a bug.

Reduce range to Shrek range. Cos atm yoyoing T70s laugh while resetting the PGrens Shrek cycle, and causing horrific bleed. The bleed is fine, but considering how expensive Shreks are, they need a better return vs T70s. Even at Shrek range, you can still yoyo, but atleast the margin of error would be a bit more fair.

Moving Scatter change as already suggested. Cos overall Vehicle kiting/chasing of infantry is a bit fubar. This change universally addresses that and makes Vehicles concretely want to stop to fire vs Infantry as WELL as vs Armor. This is a good thing.

Now lets move on to returning 222s to the meta plz.
It needs halp.

+1 the shrek range is btw hilarous... faust is fine

+1 the shrek range is btw hilarous... faust is fine

Yeah, I meant that reducing T70 range to Faust range is completely out of the question.
I think the guy who posted that used Faust instead of Shrek. Cos T70 at Faust range is flat out retarded.

Shrek and Faust range are fine in and of themselves. We have to consider Shrek range vs other Soviet armor too, it doesnt need an increase.

Its the T70s effective range on Shreks in addition to deliberate yoyoing and LoS resetting of the long Shrek fire time that is completely fking Shrek effectiveness, at its high Muni cost on a high bleed unit, vs a unit it is supposed to be a counter for that is a real problem. A properly microed T70 will never get hit by a Shrek. With its acceleration and range, it can reset Shrek ad infinitum.

Im not proposing much of a change. Just 5-10 range, just to make this fking yoyoing a little less easy while sniping 1-2 PGrens in the process.

T70s where overperforming even before the patch.

T70 is a T3 soviet unit.
ANY T3 german unit rapes the T70.
Whinning that your infantry can't do shit against a T70 is like me whinning that my conscripts can't destroy Ostwinds barehanded.

T70 is a good anti-infantry unit that fills the same role than Ostwind, but cheaper. And because it is cheaper it has a lot less hitpoints, less armor and less damage output.

Yes, it's so cheap that it can be spammed. In that case just support your troops with a StuG or PzIV. If you still doesn't have one, just retreat, the same way russians retreat when they see a FlameHT and they still doesn't have counter.

What is stupid is try to nerf a weak dedicated anti-infantry tank just because you can't kill it with infantry!

Try mines or Truesight ambushes.

The issue here is Soviet Industry Commander that enables the T70 spam way before any german can prepare any counter.