Obersoldaten and their Timing

Obersoldaten are a strong infantry unit, undeniably. When vetted and upgraded they can handily defeat most allied infantry units, struggling only with dedicated assault units that get a major drop on them, and perhaps with Paratroopers with 1919s. This is justifiable, given Obersoldaten's extremely high cost, and their inherent lack of any method of dealing with any sort of armour. (As well as their vulnerability to explosives, being a fourman squad)

The issue arises with their timing, and place within the OKW arsenal. Obers require two trucks to be placed, minimum, before they can be built. They then require the Schwere to be upgraded before they are able to get their weapon upgrade. This poses several issues: By the time you are able to build Obersoldaten you are almost necessitated to have built upwards of four Volksgrenadiers/Fusiliers. This doesn't leave an awful lot of room for Obers when combined with the light vehicles OKW are generally expected to build, the support weapons they may need, nor their later hopes for medium/heavy vehicles. OKW population issues are a seperate topic, however, as is their reliance on the Mechanised HQ and its offerings.


Your Obers, if you feel as though you can fit them into your army comp, also have the unfortunate experience of coming onto the field unvetted, and unless you want to delay them even further, unupgradable, and being expected to combat vetted allied elite infantry.

I'm suggesting that Obers be moved around within the OKW tech structure to make them a somewhat less awkward unit to field. I'm not sure where precisely would be fitting for them. Suggestions are;

Being available from the beginning of the game from the HQ truck, as an alternate option to Volks. This would be coupled with an adjustment of their veterancy, moving some of their vet-2 accuracy bonus to vet 3 or 4, so as not to entirely overpower allied infantry. Requiring a truck to have been placed before they are able to access their Bundle Grenade is another, similar suggestion. Perhaps increasing their received accuracy without vet, and providing a larger bonus through vet to make them less less powerful off the bat may also be in order. Their vulnerability to light armour, and lack of a grenade should keep them from being too oppressive early on, hopefully.

Second option: Allow them to be built as soon as a truck is deployed. This would necessitate fewer rebalances to Ober performance, given that they would still be delayed to approximately Panzergren timing, while fulfilling an entirely different role. Veterancy may still wish to be re-curved, but RA and Grenade changes would be un-needed.

In either case, I would also suggest that their MG-34 upgrade be available upon building two trucks, rather than requiring a Schwere with Panzer Auth. Both options would mean you are more free to mix-and-match your infantry build earlier on, without having to rely on losing squads of Volks to free up space in your army.

If you have any suggestions or criticisms let me know. I know It's rather a big suggested change, and that such an unit can be exceedingly powerful if available too early.

idk... OKW doesnt really suffer from the lack of early obersoldaten imo... its biggest issue is related to how healing and vehicles are in separate tech choices making it extremely wonky to get both healing and light vehicles at the same time...

Those are both changes that I would agree also need to happen. Ober timing is less of a pressing concern, but it's still something I might like to see changed.

Making them available earlier means adjusting their stats. Their 4X Kar98's alone have really good performance(don't know numbers, but just watch them in cheatmod), and just touching/shuffeling their veterancy/RA isn't enough.

This is the sort of change that would require a lot of experimenting, which is also the reason it is unlikely to happen. It would only happen if we get a major patch with several weeks of modded testing by the community. I'd probably support it.

Making them available earlier means adjusting their stats. Their 4X Kar98's alone have really good performance(don't know numbers, but just watch them in cheatmod), and just touching/shuffeling their veterancy/RA isn't enough.

This is the sort of change that would require a lot of experimenting, which is also the reason it is unlikely to happen. It would only happen if we get a major patch with several weeks of modded testing by the community. I'd probably support it.

Here, I grabbed some graphs for comparisons vs IS and USF rifles. Not pretty to fight against. Of course this doesn't take into account the 0.7 model size or the squad sizes.

EDIT: Nor does it account for the likely LMG/vet comparisons on the field.





As for the OP, I don't agree with moving them so early on. Even with adjusted stats I'm sure nobody wants to see them get some form of AT/snare to balance the fact that they're just basically Panzergrens but in nicer uniforms. The T4 place is fine imho, it's the timing of T4 Obers that isn't.

Obers should absolutely lose some DPS, not get buffed.

Obers should absolutely lose some DPS, not get buffed.

Why?

Obers should absolutely lose some DPS, not get buffed.

Lolwut? Is this because of my 'Lady Xenarra's Revenge' comment I made on Twitch those months back?

Why?

Cuz they’re broken OP and need a nerf.

Cuz they’re broken OP and need a nerf.

In what sense? That an expensive unit with a long reinforce time, and expensive reinforcement can beat allied infantry in a fight?

In what sense?

In the sense you just A move 2 obers and just wreck inf not behind sandbags and deathloop every MG. And no the cost doesn’t justify executing everything instantly.

Imagine justifying Obers cancer lmao.

In the sense you just A move 2 obers and just wreck inf not behind sandbags and deathloop every MG. And no the cost doesn’t justify executing everything instantly.

Imagine justifying Obers cancer lmao.

Come on Storm, you and I both know they'll just get stomped at vet 0/I by vet III LMG inf or Penals. And if they have vet II+, well......somebody fed them pretty hard.

2 Obers are also just begging for SU to use Katyushas on you lol.

They're also completely defenceless vs any sort of light vehicle.

Come on Storm, you and I both know they'll just get stomped at vet 0/I by vet III LMG inf or Penals. And if they have vet II+, well......somebody fed them pretty hard.

2 Obers are also just begging for SU to use Katyushas on you lol.

Then you will be happy to know that if the game is not 4v4 meatgrinder with reinforcement units/structures right behind the sector that is being contested, it is impossible to have vet3 anything but flamer CEs by the time obers hit the field.

Then you will be happy to know that if the game is not 4v4 meatgrinder with reinforcement units/structures right behind the sector that is being contested, it is impossible to have vet3 anything but flamer CEs by the time obers hit the field.

Since when has this been remotely true.

Since when has this been remotely true.

And even if it were, Obers would be being wiped just as often, providing a net drain on your manpower.

Putting them in the HQ behind first deployed truck could be an option to explore with lmg locked as it is now. Would give them some more time to shine with their K98s while the enemy is not fully decked out yet with lmgs.

Putting them in the HQ behind first deployed truck could be an option to explore with lmg locked as it is now. Would give them some more time to shine with their K98s while the enemy is not fully decked out yet with lmgs.

I hope you're ready for the screaming of OP that'll come from this if it was implemented.

Since when has this been remotely true.

Since games with skilled players on both side are being played - you don't fight lost battles, you retreat from them to avoid unneeded attrition and feeding vet to opponent.

Unless you specifically feed opponents infantry vet, its extremely rare sight to even see most squads at vet2 by the time 1st med tank arrives and obers arrive well before that.

Speaking about 1s and 2s here.

make it so that obers can be built at the same time as MG is unlocked, and only upgrade to mg34 until scwhere is built