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Why Soviets are OP

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15 Nov 2020, 11:12 AM
#481
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



I am not sure how a Maxim buff could go well... so you need to buff OKW, or give them a real tool force maxims like Snipers or something like Sdkfz 251-Flamme. And OKW has problems versus MG even now...


snipers no... id prefer less snipers to more snipers thank you... but OKW could get a mortar unlocked by the first undeployed truck... it would be a decent anti MG tool... should also make it easier to deal with the vickers as OKW... granted you would still be melted by USF alive... single most lopsided matchup if ive ever seen one....
15 Nov 2020, 11:16 AM
#482
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2020, 11:12 AMgbem


snipers no... id prefer less snipers to more snipers thank you... but OKW could get a mortar unlocked by the first undeployed truck... it would be a decent anti MG tool... should also make it easier to deal with the vickers as OKW... granted you would still be melted by USF alive... single most lopsided matchup if ive ever seen one....


All over, it would be only some plasters on bad fraction-designs.

I was working on a fraction revamp some years ago, making changes as small as possible, without destroying fractons.

e.g.
-giving OKW moratrs, move leIG18 to Ostheer, while have access to mortars with Sdkfz251.

etc.
15 Nov 2020, 11:18 AM
#483
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979


move leIG18 to Ostheer, while have access to mortars with Sdkfz251.


what? no... ostheer doesnt need the LEIG18...
15 Nov 2020, 11:19 AM
#484
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



(to remove 6men crews on loot weapons) Fully agree. Also remove bundle nades, mg42, rifle nades, put sniper behind a special side tier that offers absolutely nothing else, delay the first LV to the 9min mark, remove tellers, remove tier 4 and make its units doctrinal.

Mg42 bundle nades rifle nades sniper panther brummbar panzerwerfer are all simply too much.

Nothing of this related to captured weapons.

When other faction capture soviet weapons they have 4 men crew and there is little to no reason for when soviet capture other's faction weapons to have 6 men crews.
15 Nov 2020, 11:23 AM
#485
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2020, 11:19 AMVipper

Nothing of this related to captured weapons.

When other faction capture soviet weapons they have 4 men crew and there is little to no reason for when soviet capture other's faction weapons to have 6 men crews.


When USF captures vehicle, they still can use vehicle crews for it.
When someone captures USF vehicle, they don't have vehicle crew.

Damn, its almost as if faction trait doesn't magically go away from the faction, just because they picked a toy that isn't originally theirs, nor other factions can inherit magically faction traits that aren't theirs to begin with.

There is nothing wrong with that.
You are free to have whatever opinion on the subject, but it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the mechanic.
15 Nov 2020, 11:27 AM
#486
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2020, 11:23 AMKatitof


When USF captures vehicle, they still can use vehicle crews for it.
When someone captures USF vehicle, they don't have vehicle crew.

Damn, its almost as if faction trait doesn't magically go away from the faction, just because they picked a toy that isn't originally theirs, nor other factions can inherit magically faction traits that aren't theirs to begin with.

There is nothing wrong with that.
You are free to have whatever opinion on the subject, but it doesn't mean there is anything wrong with the mechanic.

And when OKW capture vehicles they have 3 vet while when other faction capture okw vehicles they have 3.

Now if you believe that soviet captured weapon should have 4 men crew while other faction crew should be 6 men try to come up with an actual argument explaining why soviet need this advantage.
15 Nov 2020, 11:37 AM
#487
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2020, 11:27 AMVipper

And when OKW capture vehicles they have 3 vet while when other faction capture okw vehicles they have 3.

Almost as if germans haven't provided expert level elite training on ordnance that wasn't native to them, while squad size for soviets doesn't magically change depending on what squad operates, US forces after years of trial and error finally discovered that german vehicles also have doors and hatches they can use the same way they can for their own vehicles.

Now if you believe that soviet captured weapon should have 4 men crew while other faction crew should be 6 men try to come up with an actual argument explaining why soviet need this advantage.

Well "it should not be like that, because I said so!" is not an actual argument either, so kettle, meet the pot.

You can argue all you want as you did past 5 years, 6 man soviet weapon teams are not going anywhere, nor does the ability for USF to disembark stolen vehicles.
15 Nov 2020, 11:51 AM
#488
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2020, 11:27 AMVipper

Now if you believe that soviet captured weapon should have 4 men crew while other faction crew should be 6 men try to come up with an actual argument explaining why soviet need this advantage.


cuz soviet weapon teams suck outside of the zis... if the maxim and (arguably) the soviet mortar get buffed then we can do away with the 6 man capture meme...
15 Nov 2020, 11:56 AM
#490
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2020, 11:51 AMgbem


cuz soviet weapon teams suck outside of the zis... if the maxim and (arguably) the soviet mortar get buffed then we can do away with the 6 man capture meme...

That explain why maxim in soviet hands has 6 men crews, it does not hover explain why maxim in in other factions has a crew of 4 or why a 0.5 (which is even drop-able) in soviet hand has a 6 men crew.
15 Nov 2020, 12:00 PM
#491
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2020, 11:56 AMVipper

That explain why maxim in soviet hands has 6 men crews, it does not hover explain why maxim in in other factions has a crew of 4 or why a 0.5 (which is even drop-able) in soviet hand has a 6 men crew.


the maxim is still trash despite having a 6 man crew... make soviet weapon teams (aside from the zis) not trash then we can do away with 6 man captures...
15 Nov 2020, 12:01 PM
#493
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2020, 12:00 PMgbem


the maxim is still trash despite having a 6 man crew... make soviet weapon teams (aside from the zis) not trash then we can do away with 6 man captures...

There is simply no relevance between the two and repeating the same thing over over will not magically create one.
15 Nov 2020, 12:04 PM
#494
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2020, 12:01 PMVipper

There is simply no relevance between the two.


incorrect... SOV is the only faction where i dont build nondoc MGs simply because the maxim is a 260mp waste of manpower... when playing SOV i actively try to steal MGs as opposed to building my own MG even at the cost of a squad simply because it beats building a maxim... it is that bad...


making soviet captures 4 man lowers the incentives upon capturing an MG and essentially removes nondoc suppression from the soviet faction which further forces a player to either suffer badly with the maxim or use doctrines with an actual machinegun...
15 Nov 2020, 12:05 PM
#495
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2020, 11:18 AMgbem


what? no... ostheer doesnt need the LEIG18...


It would be a changed version, not same as now, arriving later but gets more abilites. Making Ostheer more mobile while giving OKW something fitting to them e.g. a mortar. I believe there are key-units and abilities that have to be mixed between fractions. Not only the blueprint, but the logic behind them.
15 Nov 2020, 12:08 PM
#496
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979



It would be a changed version, not same as now, arriving later but gets more abilites. Making Ostheer more mobile while giving OKW more something fitting to them. etc. I believe there are key-units and abilities that have to be mixed between fractions. Not only the blueprint, but the logic behind them.


ostheer shouldnt be more mobile... the faction is built to be a slow defensive faction focusing on holding the ground then counterattacking with powerful T4 units... at least thats how i see it... the real mobile faction here is either USF or SOV... with USF focused more on hyperaggression earlygame while SOV focused on lategame firepower...
15 Nov 2020, 12:21 PM
#497
avatar of Widerstreit

Posts: 1392

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2020, 12:08 PMgbem


ostheer shouldnt be more mobile... the faction is built to be a slow defensive faction focusing on holding the ground then counterattacking with powerful T4 units... at least thats how i see it... the real mobile faction here is either USF or SOV... with USF focused more on hyperaggression earlygame while SOV focused on lategame firepower...


You want balancing, then you have to change such designs. Or is UK ultra defensive now? No, they were changed. Overall, UK has a weired design, beeing a mix of Dünkirchen and 1946+ fraktion. xD
15 Nov 2020, 12:23 PM
#498
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2020, 12:04 PMgbem


incorrect...

You are "incorrect" performance of soviet support weapons and the performance of captured weapon are irrelevant issues.
15 Nov 2020, 12:52 PM
#499
avatar of gbem

Posts: 1979

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2020, 12:23 PMVipper

You are "incorrect" performance of soviet support weapons and the performance of captured weapon are irrelevant issues.


it isnt... in the old days it would be called assymetric balancing... when the latter compensates for the inability of the former... but at this point this assymetry is one that is unsustainable to the soviet faction and must be corrected...
15 Nov 2020, 12:56 PM
#500
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post15 Nov 2020, 12:52 PMgbem


Still irrelevant to captured weapons.
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