Why Soviets are OP

Jump back to quoted post12 Nov 2020, 05:26 AMgbem

i cited some actual stats to the performance of units beyond your "my feelings" argument... your feelings are subjective and thus subject to biases... i gave some actual evidence to the numbers behind it and as to why i disagree with you... but instead of attempting to refute them you simply ignore them and continue on being delusional...

and no being a 1v1 player doesnt excuse jack shit... in a 1v1 the STG will always have a 30% dps boost to volks at range 20 regardless of game mode... it doesnt change whether its 1v1 2v2 or 4v4 hell 100v100... the STG does 30% dps at range 20 to volks period... that is IRREFUTABLE... that is FACTUAL... backup your claims with actual data before arguing because at this point your spouting out bullshit...

Jump back to quoted post12 Nov 2020, 21:38 PMSpoof

Seriously, a playercard would be helpful. Cons are better in team games than in 1v1s because it's easier to survive to late game in team games where the 7 man upgrade comes and really changes the flow of the game. 7 man Cons are arguably better than StG Volks since it's a cheaper upgrade, buffs survivability, gives a small but nice buff to DPS in cover, and most importantly, helps make Conscripts replaceable (StG Volks are pretty much irreplaceable in team games, even 1v1s and 2v2s most of the time).

Jump back to quoted post12 Nov 2020, 21:38 PMSpoof

Also, please don't talk about bias without a playercard. I try my best to be unbiased but I am obviously still Axis leaning as evidenced by my playercard. The same could be said of you and any other forum member.

Jump back to quoted post12 Nov 2020, 21:47 PMgbem

i do think 7 man is strong... but only after vet 3... before veterancy 7 man is comparable to any bog standard weapon upgrade...

Jump back to quoted post12 Nov 2020, 21:51 PMSpoof

I have to disagree. 7 man as an upgrade is always strong (when compared to upgrades such as the StG, MG42, BARS and Brens) based on the improvement it gives to the squad. The reason why 0 vet 7 man Cons are comparable to other upgraded infantry is because standard Cons are intentionally shit.

Jump back to quoted post12 Nov 2020, 21:51 PMSpoof

But since the upgrade is cheaper than most other upgrades I'd say it's a pretty damn good upgrade.

Jump back to quoted post12 Nov 2020, 21:51 PMSpoof

Also using Vet 3 Cons is a pretty bad comparison, even to other vetted infantry in my opinion. The gap between Vet 0 and Vet 3 Cons is huge.

Jump back to quoted post12 Nov 2020, 20:44 PMgbem

volks have greater dps at most ranges during vet 0 however the opposite true for vet 3 vs vet5... vet 0 volks are pretty balanced overall though vet 5 may be arguable




ehh rifles dont get that massive vet boost either... only cons get massive accuracy and RA bonuses while grens get a large DR boost and accuracy bonuses

Jump back to quoted post13 Nov 2020, 01:08 AMPip

Rifles get a combined 38% RA boost, Volks get 24%, this is on top of rifles having a better target size than Volks by default. They also have the potential of double BARs (Even a single one is better than STGs, to my knowledge)

Jump back to quoted post12 Nov 2020, 18:33 PMPip

I'm not saying you CAN do that, but it seems to be what's expected of OKW. Volks, as you say, get minced by Allied infantry (and vehicles) past early game. It feels like you're "supposed" to replace them with Obers, to be able to compete, but due to Obers late timing, cost, and the fact they need vet/LMG this isn't realistic.

Particularly as you sort of "need" three/four Volks before you tech up, you really don't have the population space to justify Obers, either. It's almost like you're encouraged to have your Volks die. I think this is part (On top of the other numerous benefits thereof) of the reason people really like Fusiliers. Early infantry that actually scales.


Honestly I don't really enjoy 1v1s, so this is mostly theoretical speculation, rather than coming from experience.

Jump back to quoted post13 Nov 2020, 01:08 AMPip

Rifles get a combined 38% RA boost, Volks get 24%, this is on top of rifles having a better target size than Volks by default. They also have the potential of double BARs (Even a single one is better than STGs, to my knowledge)

Jump back to quoted post13 Nov 2020, 17:55 PMelchino7

Bonuses are multiplicative nor additive.

Jump back to quoted post13 Nov 2020, 20:50 PMPip

Ah, I wasnt sure which it was, thanks. Either way, Rifles still have significantly better RA than Volks at vet3/5.

Jump back to quoted post14 Nov 2020, 00:47 AMgbem

yeah cus volks get healing and vision in vet 4/5...

Jump back to quoted post14 Nov 2020, 02:02 AMPip

Healing is alright, but isnt a combat statistic. The vision is similarly OK, but only defensively, given that it's an "in cover" bonus, and not as significant as other units vision-in-cover bonuses.

If you're actually fighting other units RA or Accuracy is generally preferable.

Jump back to quoted post14 Nov 2020, 02:28 AMthedarkarmadillo

The healing is actually quite dope. While not, say... Quantifiable, it is a huge bonus to pressure and field presence. Less so against WFA because the AOE healing and forward retreats designed specifically to minimize the impact of retreating but against soviet its rather powerful in knowing unless the enemy squad headed back to base you will be full HP and they will not.

Vision also has value in picking engagements or seeing what's coming a bit sooner to position support. Again not quantifiable but has as much value as a good commander can extract (which imo is the best kind of "extra" vet for OKW to have)

Jump back to quoted post14 Nov 2020, 03:56 AMPip

Sure, but in DIRECT COMBAT accuracy and RA are still undeniably preferable. The healing and vision are certainly good, they're just not combat stats.

Jump back to quoted post15 Nov 2020, 10:17 AMWiderstreit

One way to go would be, to remove 6men crews on loot weapons, so soviets only get benefit on their own stuff.

6men HMG42, Vickers, PaK40 etc. is simply too much.

Jump back to quoted post15 Nov 2020, 10:18 AMgbem

way to nerf the weakest faction in the game... can we instead focus on trying to buff SOV and OKW instead of trying to make them unplayable?

Jump back to quoted post15 Nov 2020, 10:17 AMWiderstreit

One way to go would be, to remove 6men crews on loot weapons, so soviets only get benefit on their own stuff.

6men HMG42, Vickers, PaK40 etc. is simply too much.

Jump back to quoted post15 Nov 2020, 10:20 AMWiderstreit

Because they arn't weakest fraction and this change would be a minor change, but a huge one for 3vs3+ when they are able to refesh everywhere.