Hi guys. I encounter big problems dealing with multiple KV1 and/or vanilla Churchills.
Axis, specially Ost, have no proper counters to them. Ost has no TD to pen them, and Pak die too fast.
Only Panther is "good" against them, but they miss too much on the move, and the ROF is too high. Even panther is horrible at killing them.
I was wondering what do you think of limiting them by max 1 per time, just all of the other heavys in the game.
Limit to 1 ALL heavys
3 Sep 2020, 18:14 PM
#1
Posts: 311
3 Sep 2020, 18:20 PM
#2
Posts: 39
As long as you're down for a lot of buffs to Churchill/KV-1 seen as its now limited to 1, sure
3 Sep 2020, 21:44 PM
#3
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Nah
3 Sep 2020, 22:41 PM
#4
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
As long as you're down for a lot of buffs to Churchill/KV-1 seen as its now limited to 1, sure
Basically.
I think in the case of Churchill it could work.
KV1 is not a heavy. If that is the case then, Panther/Comets would be considered "heavies" as well.
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3 Sep 2020, 23:37 PM
#5
Posts: 1515
Hi guys. I encounter big problems dealing with multiple KV1 and/or vanilla Churchills.
Axis, specially Ost, have no proper counters to them. Ost has no TD to pen them, and Pak die too fast.
Only Panther is "good" against them, but they miss too much on the move, and the ROF is too high. Even panther is horrible at killing them.
I was wondering what do you think of limiting them by max 1 per time, just all of the other heavys in the game.
I don't think I've ever seen you not complain about Allies OP.
To deal with KV1 as OST:
P4 flank (KV1 has piss poor penetration and movement)
Panther
Puma
Pak + snare
Pgrens with shrecks in yellow cover
as OKW:
P4 flank
Puma
Panther,
Raketen + snare
Churchill:
Same stuff
Or if you really want a limit on those vehicles, then get ready for major buffs to them cause they are infantry support heavies with really poor AT/maneuverability. Not generalist heavies like Tiger or IS2 or KT.
How much wood could a woodchuck chuck, if a woodchuck could chuck wood?
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4 Sep 2020, 00:32 AM
#6
Posts: 1220 | Subs: 1
Actually you only need to slap a tiger gun on Churchill then it is ready to be limited to 1 :v
4 Sep 2020, 08:40 AM
#7
Posts: 63
Actually you only need to slap a tiger gun on Churchill then it is ready to be limited to 1 :v
Time for a black prince
4 Sep 2020, 08:55 AM
#8
Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1
I don't think I've ever seen you not complain about Allies OP.
To deal with KV1 as OST:
P4 flank (KV1 has piss poor penetration and movement)
...
I suggest you try countering a KV1 with P4 1vs1 and see what happens.
4 Sep 2020, 14:22 PM
#9
Posts: 281
To deal with KV1 as OST:
P4 flank (KV1 has piss poor penetration and movement)
Panther
Puma
Pak + snare
Pgrens with shrecks in yellow cover
as OKW:
P4 flank
Puma
Panther,
Raketen + snare
Are you kidding?
even in a vacuum a kv1 would win against a p4 that hits every shot in the rear of the kv1, good luck trying that with a single zis or snare around.
puma has more range but will bounce most of its shots, the kv1 can just ignore a puma and get a zis in position.
shrek pgrens are horrible against a high armor/health target. specially in YELLOW COVER?????? are you serious? thats the worst advice ive every heard. when you want to risk your 340mp 100muni squad to get rekt in a single shot, sure go for it lol
tbf, panther and a supported pak can deal with a kv1 but on its own will never be able to kill it.
the strongest thing about the kv1 is its timing. it can be on the field 2-3 minutes after the ost p4 and at this point the axis player wont be prepared for it
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4 Sep 2020, 15:48 PM
#10
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
the strongest thing about the kv1 is its timing. it can be on the field 2-3 minutes after the ost p4 and at this point the axis player wont be prepared for it
This I can see as a problem, but OP claims it's multiple KV1s that are the issue, which sounds kinda strange to me. I can't see how multiple KVs is a good move, too slow and easily outranged
If someone builds multiple KV1s you should 100% be using double Paks. If they can spend that much fuel on a shitty heavy tank, you can afford the MP for 2 Pak guns, which should handle them really well
4 Sep 2020, 16:13 PM
#11
Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
KV1s you just have to outrange with Panther or StuG spam - you don't have to kill it but if you make it impossible for him to push forward with risking a few back to Pens then it's hard for him to use it effectively. Having Stuka CAS in your loadout helps too - just wait for it to be damaged and then pop it when you see an opportunity for the kill.
4 Sep 2020, 16:53 PM
#12
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
KV1s you just have to outrange with Panther or StuG spam - you don't have to kill it but if you make it impossible for him to push forward with risking a few back to Pens then it's hard for him to use it effectively. Having Stuka CAS in your loadout helps too - just wait for it to be damaged and then pop it when you see an opportunity for the kill.
To be frank, CAS or any other skillplanes are unusable because of how OP M5 AA vs planes. If there is 1 around (and any good soviet player will most likely get it) your best bet is 1 strafe maybe 2 if you are very lucky.
And regarding stugs, it has like 20 more penetration at long range then PIV, which is still un-relable vs KV frontal amor. Panther is counter but panther arrives much later then KV. It will have relayble penetration only from the rear (which is major fk up from soviet, if he letting you shoot rear with stugs), while PIV can somewhat penetrate KV rear only at close range, which is death sentence most of the time.
Also snowballing into su-85 should be considered.
As was already pointed KV timing is pretty much sligtly delayed medium armor one, while its has proper heavy tank armor.
KV-8 is even more retarded, because by its timing proper counters would be only AT guns, which it can just charge and de-crew.
4 Sep 2020, 20:20 PM
#13
Posts: 449
KV tanks should be cheap but needs to arrive later than it does now. Perhaps giving it a CP requirement would help.
4 Sep 2020, 20:49 PM
#14
Posts: 281
This I can see as a problem, but OP claims it's multiple KV1s that are the issue, which sounds kinda strange to me. I can't see how multiple KVs is a good move, too slow and easily outranged
If someone builds multiple KV1s you should 100% be using double Paks. If they can spend that much fuel on a shitty heavy tank, you can afford the MP for 2 Pak guns, which should handle them really well
I see and use multiple kv1s all the time. you may outrange the kv1 but not the usual double zis thats next to it.
When your opponent only has one pak when the kv1 hits the field, just drive at it, doesnt even matter what support it has around. a potential p4 thats on the field gets dealt with by double zis, the p4 will never be able to kill the kv1 fast enough.
You either kill one pak which is -320mp or you drive your opponent of the field and park a kv1 in their base. that gives you enough time to get a second kv1 and make it very hard for the axis player to field a counter. Add cons, guards and il2 planes to the pushes, probably dealing with a second pak and you have a 20min gg 90% of the time.
I think multiple kv1s can be a problem, atleast in 1v1
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4 Sep 2020, 22:55 PM
#15
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
I think multiple kv1s can be a problem, atleast in 1v1
Could be but not in 2v2 imo. That's mostly what I play. They're not bad by any means I just can't see why you'd ever want two. Katy is almost required in team games, su85 can be just as necessary
Totally agree a kv1 rush can be a problem. But OP is talking about limit to 1, that does not affect the rush at all
4 Sep 2020, 23:24 PM
#16
Posts: 682
To deal with KV1 as OST:
P4 flank (KV1 has piss poor penetration and movement)
What kind of people are you playing that let you take on kv1s with p4s? Good grief. Even if you flank it and blast it in the ass a p4 will bounce more than half the time against a unit that has more hp and damage reduction. And at that range a kv1 will pen a p4 more from the front than a p4 will a kv1 from the back.
So no, don't flank a kv1 with a p4. It's a bad idea.
/s
4 Sep 2020, 23:32 PM
#17
Posts: 1116 | Subs: 1
Totally agree a kv1 rush can be a problem. But OP is talking about limit to 1, that does not affect the rush at all
All KV needs is CP unlock cost to match up Churchill timings or at least be slightly faster to obtain then it. By no means any of KV1\8 should arive 2-3 mins after first medium.
5 Sep 2020, 23:00 PM
#18
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Hi guys. I encounter big problems dealing with multiple KV1 and/or vanilla Churchills.
Axis, specially Ost, have no proper counters to them. Ost has no TD to pen them, and Pak die too fast.
Only Panther is "good" against them, but they miss too much on the move, and the ROF is too high. Even panther is horrible at killing them.
I was wondering what do you think of limiting them by max 1 per time, just all of the other heavys in the game.
So you want to fix L2P problem by changing the game and its going to help you not suck how?
Your problem is you don't build anti tank guns nor place mines.
Start from there.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
6 Sep 2020, 03:02 AM
#19
Posts: 3053
Lol kv1 = pershing/tiger/kt now?
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13 Sep 2020, 17:19 PM
#20
Posts: 888
No. In fact I think the pop should be reduced on the following units:
Panther- from 18 to 17
Stug III - from 10 to 8
Jagpanzer IV - from 15 to 14
Churchill - from 19 to 17
Comet - from 18 to 17
Crocodile/AVRE from 21 to 19
Tiger - from 21 to 19
Pershing - from 19 to 18
Jackson/Firefly - from 16 to 15
Panther- from 18 to 17
Stug III - from 10 to 8
Jagpanzer IV - from 15 to 14
Churchill - from 19 to 17
Comet - from 18 to 17
Crocodile/AVRE from 21 to 19
Tiger - from 21 to 19
Pershing - from 19 to 18
Jackson/Firefly - from 16 to 15
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