SU-85 and SU-76

I already suggested improve stock damage of SU-76 to 160 when T4 is built. But lock SU-85 and katy further away in terms of timing and resources. Current pen and 160 damage is more than enough to fight against P4. While it still fragile "3 shots to die" thing. Good against mediums and lower, very bad choice against top-tier guys.Without AI it also could be easily counter by infantry and ATG. While smoke shot instead of HE barrage give few utility.
Problem of SU-76 is timing. T3 tier for soviets is barrier on the road to T4. While this position there is, no any chances to make SU-76 playable.

is to cheap for the 160dmg tag and AI wiping potential. have in remind it has 60 range.

and look to penals which deny any div-in trough satchel. so in best case you only their SU76 and AT penals and run around the battlefield and dont need fear anything... until panthers hit the field.

stug has 160 dmg..but is only AT, 50 range. and cost 90fuel. no wiping potential on squads.

is to cheap for the 160dmg tag and AI wiping potential. have in remind it has 60 range.

and look to penals which deny any div-in trough satchel. so in best case you only their SU76 and AT penals and run around the battlefield and dont need fear anything... until panthers hit the field.

stug has 160 dmg..but is only AT, 50 range. and cost 90fuel. no wiping potential on squads.

Read carefull what i wrote.
"I already suggested improve stock damage of SU-76 to 160 when T4 is built. But lock SU-85 and katy further away in terms of timing and resources. Current pen and 160 damage is more than enough to fight against P4. While it still fragile "3 shots to die" thing. Good against mediums and lower, very bad choice against top-tier guys.Without AI it also could be easily counter by infantry and ATG. While smoke shot instead of HE barrage give few utility."

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Problem with utility of SU-76 are T-70 and T4. Now T-70 can deal with LV and infantry. You don't need anything apart from t-70. I really can't imagine what kind of "utility" you want to add to SU-76 to make it playable. It's already "less zis on wheels" , but it never used in T1 because delay your T4 with all 3 crucial armor units and don't provide feild control. No one in sane will be build su-76 to then faces with angry P4, because right in the moment as you build SU-76 to counter P4, axis will get +75 fuel "gandicap". No any su-85, t-34, 7-th cons, no unlock for heavies don't arrive next 165 fuel or roughly 7 minutes (24 fuel in minute medium value if you have half map under control). Even lonely t-34 now better counter against P4, because give you at least mobility and good firepower aginst soft targets.
If you go to T1 much safer choice play defensive doctrine with 2 baby-at guns neither build su-76 to counter mediums. You don't delay your crucial tier, you don't lost field pressure because T-70 and you can survive until T4 will be deployed.

The T70 needs nerfed a bit so the power of the T70 isn't being taken into account with my suggestion as, for all we know it's going to get the sturmtiger treatment where it's technically there but realisticly it isn't. The Overpowered T70 shouldn't be used as a metric to not change another unit in its tier to something more useful anyways... As forgetting the su76 making you helpless against the p4.... What? You know this is an AT unit primarily right? Like... It shoots tanks.... That's what it does. Furthermore, WHEN the T70 gets nerfed a version of 7man could be moved to t3 to compensate for the power spike being blunted and focused on a single unit and instead the power spike would be in conscripts where it should have been in the first place. That alone might give rise to seeing more halftrack support.
But back to the su76 and how giving it smoke and a slight scaling rework works- the synergy with T1 would be astounding. Giving smoke to normal penals would be great, furthermore AT penals would help the squishy su76 keep from getting Dove on. It's practically a match made in heaven. You get a zis and a mortar all in one mobile and armored package and those are all things that T1 lacks

The Overpowered T70 shouldn't be used as a metric to not change another unit in its tier to something more useful anyways... As forgetting the su76 making you helpless against the p4.... What? You know this is an AT unit primarily right? Like... It shoots tanks.... That's what it does.

In which situation SU player will build SU-76? Right, after early lost of t-70, when you play T1. That means only what i said before - +165 fuel handicap for axis only to achieve T4 (SU-76+T4). Who in sane would build SU-76 to counter P4, while much better do it or by zis or by 2 baby-at guns? If it was good tactic (build su-76 to counter P4) we at least saw such movements on tournaments at first then on pro-games and finally in SU meta. Or i miss something?
Every lost SU-76 will also give for axis +75 fuel free time. While Axis player could play on his T3 against you, for you it will be road to dead end. You need T4 to get your T-34, su-85 and heavies.

Furthermore, WHEN the T70 gets nerfed a version of 7man could be moved to t3 to compensate for the power spike being blunted and focused on a single unit and instead the power spike would be in conscripts where it should have been in the first place. That alone might give rise to seeing more halftrack support.

How this correspond to T1 oppening? While it good suggestion, but i think IMHO it will increase power of SU more than now. T-70 is strong, but 7-th cons are stronger in my opinion. And i even don't say about such thing that cons are T2 openning, for T2 openning you don't need SU-76, you have zis.

But back to the su76 and how giving it smoke and a slight scaling rework works- the synergy with T1 would be astounding. Giving smoke to normal penals would be great, furthermore AT penals would help the squishy su76 keep from getting Dove on. It's practically a match made in heaven. You get a zis and a mortar all in one mobile and armored package and those are all things that T1 lacks

No smoke for regular infantry. Or you want to see how penals smoking way to OKW bases?

The split specialists don't work if that's all they bring to the table. A medium counter and a heavy counter are cumbersome. That's why the added utility for the su76 so that once you need to transition into heavy AT the unit retains some battlefield value. Additionally, if it was more or less a zis on tracks combined with a mortar it would synergize well with t1 that lacks both of those things. Utility to provide the scaling that raw firepower makes OP is the key I believe.

No, that's the problem. The 'transition to heavy AT' just doesn't work. These units are too expensive and too specialised to afford being rendered redundant like that. You just go straight for that heavy AT.

To make light TDs work they need a huge mobility advantage over anti-tank guns, and an equally huge tech barrier between them and the proper tank destroyer. The SU-76 has neither.

In which situation SU player will build SU-76? Right, after early lost of t-70, when you play T1. That means only what i said before - +165 fuel handicap for axis only to achieve T4 (SU-76+T4). Who in sane would build SU-76 to counter P4, while much better do it or by zis or by 2 baby-at guns? If it was good tactic (build su-76 to counter P4) we at least saw such movements on tournaments at first then on pro-games and finally in SU meta. Or i miss something?

yes, you are missing something. Namely that changes applied will change nothing at all about the meta or builds. If the T70 isn't a no brainer in every situation which I soon expect it to be, perhaps a player might build a su76 in lieu of a t70 to leverage an infantry advantage afforded by earlier 7 man and T1 penals
As for the zis and m42 AT gun, if I don't back tech or have a specific doctrine both of those will be tricky. I'm not trying to make the su76 the new meta, just halfway viable.
Every lost SU-76 will also give for axis +75 fuel free time. While Axis player could play on his T3 against you, for you it will be road to dead end. You need T4 to get your T-34, su-85 and heavies.
there's your problem... You are assuming not only that the unit is a write off but also that it isn't going to generate any value in the meantime. In the meantime the su76 actually can with light support counter the entirety of ost t3 and if granted smoke even support against other threats. You are not looking at this with clear eyes just finding cause to support it as the failure you have already decided it is.

How this correspond to T1 oppening? While it good suggestion, but i think IMHO it will increase power of SU more than now. T-70 is strong, but 7-th cons are stronger in my opinion. And i even don't say about such thing that cons are T2 openning, for T2 openning you don't need SU-76, you have zis.

if you already have t2 odds are you won't need the su76... That's OK. I'm not exactly sure what you are arguing here... Not every unit needs to the go to every single scenario especially not when there is split teching.

No smoke for regular infantry. Or you want to see how penals smoking way to OKW bases?
and here you have lost me entirely... Seriously what the fuck are you talking about? I didn't suggest penals getting smoke I suggested the su76 getting smoke. Something they can already have readily if they side tech to t2 and get a mortar for cheaper if they so choose.

No, that's the problem. The 'transition to heavy AT' just doesn't work. These units are too expensive and too specialised to afford being rendered redundant like that. You just go straight for that heavy AT.

To make light TDs work they need a huge mobility advantage over anti-tank guns, and an equally huge tech barrier between them and the proper tank destroyer. The SU-76 has neither.
I disagree. Heavy AT is expensive because how else do you gate a unit that counters everything. Remeber what the last solution to the Jackson countering every bit of armour from kuble to KT was? A price increase. If HEAVY AT doesn't also counter literally everything up to and including heavy tanks with extreme efficiency they have no need to be so expensive. If there is an alternative then they don't need to counter everything up to and including heavy Armour. All allied TDs got price increases over the years as they were made more potent and more all in one but if they can start actually being designed as more specialist then we can have a price decrease to accompany them.

Su76 just needs a small damage buff, that's it.

It's the combat engi of TD while the SU85 is the penal.