Main gun crit
23 Jul 2020, 13:05 PM
#1
Posts: 187
Should main gun crit be completely removed? I think so.
23 Jul 2020, 13:41 PM
#2
Posts: 5279
I don't think so. It's fairly rare and adds some randomness. That said I'd like to see more "wounded crew" crits where imstead of disabling a component and requiring a repair it reduces efficiency and is only time gated
#stalinwept
23 Jul 2020, 14:19 PM
#3
Posts: 493
No. But it should never appear when you shoot at 1HP vehicle and instead of dying it's getting away with crit.
mastered mode: 4v3 
drops > mates > rng > pathfinding > ??? > skill
drops > mates > rng > pathfinding > ??? > skill
23 Jul 2020, 14:21 PM
#4
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
No. But it should never appear when you shoot at 1HP vehicle and instead of dying it's getting away with crit.
Crits can't revent kills for couple of years now.
You have a chance to get crit when you go down to 25% of health or less, but they can't save you.
A near miss that dealt AoE dmg can make it look like it did.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
23 Jul 2020, 14:28 PM
#5
Posts: 493
A near miss that dealt AoE dmg can make it look like it did.
My bad then. So if I hit e.g. a 90HP vehicle for 100DMG then it will be like 100DMG + main gun crit (which means a kill), and not 0DMG + crit?
mastered mode: 4v3
drops > mates > rng > pathfinding > ??? > skill
drops > mates > rng > pathfinding > ??? > skill
23 Jul 2020, 14:32 PM
#6
Posts: 127
I don't think so. It's fairly rare and adds some randomness. That said I'd like to see more "wounded crew" crits where imstead of disabling a component and requiring a repair it reduces efficiency and is only time gated
Exactly this.
It's so fucking annoying to only see Main Gun and Engine crits all the time and nothing really new.
I am "Racist".
23 Jul 2020, 14:44 PM
#7
Posts: 682
I think the threshold should be reduced to 20%. Medium tank fights will be largely unaffected by random guns exploding
/s
23 Jul 2020, 15:00 PM
#8
1 Posts: 33
There's a main gun loader injured crit in game but I think there's 0 chances for it to occur, atleast in multiplayer.
23 Jul 2020, 15:19 PM
#9
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I think the threshold should be reduced to 20%. Medium tank fights will be largely unaffected by random guns exploding
Its not needed tho.
You can play starcraft if you don't want to see RNG.
RNG based mechanics are selling point of CoH series.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
23 Jul 2020, 15:32 PM
#10
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I think the threshold should be reduced to 20%. Medium tank fights will be largely unaffected by random guns exploding
This is my view as well. Not fully repaired vehicles or slightly dmg by other sources get's punished while full 640HP vehicles don't get disabled randomly by 3 shots.
I would go even further and say that i would like the injured crew type of crits be at the 25% HP mark and the heavy ones like main gun destroy push further down the HP bar.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
23 Jul 2020, 16:05 PM
#11
Posts: 3166 | Subs: 6
I wouldn't mind if instead of completely disabling the gun, a main gun critical would instead impose a severe accuracy penalty so at least the vehicle isn't completely defenceless. Engine damage doesn't completely disable movement either.
Although ideally things like a main gun crit would also be something that has to be deliberately triggered somehow just like how snares deal engine damage, rather than being something completely random.
Although ideally things like a main gun crit would also be something that has to be deliberately triggered somehow just like how snares deal engine damage, rather than being something completely random.
23 Jul 2020, 17:05 PM
#12
Posts: 682
Its not needed tho.
You can play starcraft if you don't want to see RNG.
RNG based mechanics are selling point of CoH series.
I fail to see how reducing it by 5% = remove rng, but hey, you be you buddy.
Also, see elchino's reply.
/s
23 Jul 2020, 17:05 PM
#13
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
I wouldn't mind if instead of completely disabling the gun, a main gun critical would instead impose a severe accuracy penalty so at least the vehicle isn't completely defenceless. Engine damage doesn't completely disable movement either.
Although ideally things like a main gun crit would also be something that has to be deliberately triggered somehow just like how snares deal engine damage, rather than being something completely random.
I would go as far as say that turret lock would be a more interesting crit than pure main gun destroy.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.
Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.
23 Jul 2020, 17:22 PM
#14
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
I will never understand people who think it's good for the game
The OG main gun crit caused medium tanks to take 5 shots to kill. They nerfed it without removing rng from the game. The change you quoted didn't remove rng either, just make it so it wouldn't happen in 1 on 1 tank fights
Also... Trying to penetrate the original 425 frontal armor of the KT and the 225 rear armor was rng too, and that was one of the dumbest things in the game's history
"But RNG bruh" is not a valid argument
Don't have to outright remove it, but the way it currently works needs to be changed
You can play starcraft if you don't want to see RNG.
RNG based mechanics are selling point of CoH series.
The OG main gun crit caused medium tanks to take 5 shots to kill. They nerfed it without removing rng from the game. The change you quoted didn't remove rng either, just make it so it wouldn't happen in 1 on 1 tank fights
Also... Trying to penetrate the original 425 frontal armor of the KT and the 225 rear armor was rng too, and that was one of the dumbest things in the game's history
"But RNG bruh" is not a valid argument
Don't have to outright remove it, but the way it currently works needs to be changed
23 Jul 2020, 18:32 PM
#15
Posts: 5279
A little rng makes the game unpredictable and exciting, but unrestricted rng makes it annoying as hell. Rng needs an aligning feature or something that allows a measure of predictability.
Things like crits only happening at a certain threshold is good and predictable rng. Tanks surving a killing blow they had no right surviving multiple times in a row and instead getting a crit is not good rng
I'd argue that at 25%...thats pretty well fine... I would still like it to become a wound rather than a require full repair crit, but happening when the tank is already being left as a 1 shot isn't the end of the world imo.
I do quite like sanders suggesting of the greatly reduced accuracy, not sure how well that would line up for animations though given the gun barrel generally goes limper than gerry's dick when someone destroys a tiger.
Things like crits only happening at a certain threshold is good and predictable rng. Tanks surving a killing blow they had no right surviving multiple times in a row and instead getting a crit is not good rng
I'd argue that at 25%...thats pretty well fine... I would still like it to become a wound rather than a require full repair crit, but happening when the tank is already being left as a 1 shot isn't the end of the world imo.
I do quite like sanders suggesting of the greatly reduced accuracy, not sure how well that would line up for animations though given the gun barrel generally goes limper than gerry's dick when someone destroys a tiger.
#stalinwept
23 Jul 2020, 21:05 PM
#16
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
Is having your tank go from on the offensive to "oh shit" run, while your opponent can be in full retreat and suddenly see that crit and understand I can now yolo into my opponent with signicantly less threat, a fun mechanic? No.
23 Jul 2020, 23:06 PM
#17
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Is having your tank go from on the offensive to "oh shit" run, while your opponent can be in full retreat and suddenly see that crit and understand I can now yolo into my opponent with signicantly less threat, a fun mechanic? No.
If you're on the offensive and your tank is at 25% health or less, your offensive isn't going as well as you might think.
This crit is no different then T34 having lucky streak on OKW P4, penning it each time frontally when P4 can't even hit T34 - these situations happen equally often.
Sometimes you have luck on your side, sometimes you don't.
Without that element it would just be another generic ww2 rts and even these have RNG in some form very often.
Removing RNG is the same as removing synch kills from DoW2 and not even implementing it in DoW3, yeah, it increased competitiveness, but took away the features that identified the game and made it stand out, resulting in predictable, plain, generic game.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
23 Jul 2020, 23:08 PM
#18
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
I'd argue that at 25%...thats pretty well fine...
I disagree, mostly because of how much it can swing 1 on 1 medium tank fights. If they're 4 shots to kill, 25% is unacceptable. It's even less acceptable with the target size nerfs to mediums
I would still like it to become a wound rather than a require full repair crit, but happening when the tank is already being left as a 1 shot isn't the end of the world imo.
Then make it a gun loader crit or turret lock. Those accomplish similar effects while being temporary
Removing RNG is the same as removing synch kills from DoW2 and not even implementing it in DoW3, yeah, it increased competitiveness, but took away the features that identified the game and made it stand out, resulting in predictable, plain, generic game.
How many times do you need it explained to you that lowering the threshold isn't removing rng? Even if we did remove it altogether, are you really trying to tell me there would be no more rng left in CoH?
24 Jul 2020, 01:32 AM
#19
Posts: 5279
I disagree, mostly because of how much it can swing 1 on 1 medium tank fights. If they're 4 shots to kill, 25% is unacceptable. It's even less acceptable with the target size nerfs to mediums
As was already said, the crit doesn't swing the engagement any more than any other RNG really. The shot that dealt the damage could easily have been a bounce or a miss also.
Then make it a gun loader crit or turret lock. Those accomplish similar effects while being temporary
I'm on board. It was my suggestion after all...
How many times do you need it explained to you that lowering the threshold isn't removing rng? Even if we did remove it altogether, are you really trying to tell me there would be no more rng left in CoH?
When standard AT essentially takes 25% health away lowering the threshold effective DOES remove it. As it is frankly the impact only adds more dynamics to the engagements.
Additionally I'm not sure why you are being so hostile towards me. Surely we can can respectfully disagree and discuss as we have over many things of the many years of sharing the forums together
#stalinwept
24 Jul 2020, 03:05 AM
#20
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
As was already said, the crit doesn't swing the engagement any more than any other RNG really. The shot that dealt the damage could easily have been a bounce or a miss also.
The bounces and misses are enough RNG already. But far more importantly YOU can do something about those. Your tank being closer reduces the chances of both of those, AND if you stop moving before the shot that effects misses too
There's absolutely no influencing the main gun crit in medium on medium fights. Or most tank fights. Only thing that increases chances are using things like ostwinds and centaurs on a low health tank
I'm on board. It was my suggestion after all...
Okay. i just got confused because you're disagreeing with a 20% threshold nerf, but approving a gun loader or turret lock swap, which I feel like is a way larger change
When standard AT essentially takes 25% health away lowering the threshold effective DOES remove it. As it is frankly the impact only adds more dynamics to the engagements.
I don't think so. 20% lines up with exactly 1 shot left for anything with 800 health. Not to mention lower damage higher rof weapons cause them more often than standard AT anyway
It takes them out of medium on medium fights where there's enough going on already. Combined arms increases your chances still, since softer AT can still get into the 20% window on mediums
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