The state of 3v3 map pool

And in general having fuel somewhat safe can do good for player mentality, since a lot of ppl, if they see that both fuel are lost tent to leave.

Good point!

How do 3v3 players feel about fuel, cutoff, and VP locations?

4v4 = All fights are for the fuel, fuels are usually center line located.

2v2 = Usually have a safe fuel but maybe a strong fuel cutoff.

Having fuels in the center forces players to fight there immediately. Having a safe fuel lets players focus on combat and flanking.

Each mode seems to have its own style. Just trying to nail down what 3v3 players prefer.

Essen: Decent idea but cutoffs are too safe and fuels are exactly between teams.
General Mud: Well made
Steppes: No real cutoff play because fuels are between the teams and the fuel south/VPs north split is annoying.
Lienne: Awful
La Gleize: Best fuel/cutoff play by far.
Ettelbruck: Extremely safe fuels which is bad.
Angermuende: Fuels are way too safe and the cutoffs are so far away from your base that you either commit your whole force to take them or you don't touch them. Way too hard to harrass.
Red Ball: Fuel points between teams = 0 cutoff play and just bash your head against the wall.
Across the Rhine: Good positions, wish there was more cutoff play. I'd personally replace the muni points with regular cutoff points.
Oka River: Weird map in general
Whiteball: Very hard to get cutoff play and the fuels are between the teams so all the action is there.
Hamburg: Again, if you focus the whole game on a single point you can't have cutoff play.
Hill 400: Lots of cutoff play which makes the map better than it really is.
Rzhev: Very safe fuel but excellent cutoff positions which allow for either hard attacks on fuel or medium difficulty attacks on cutoffs.

Rzhev Winter & Oka River get vetoed by me on account of just being malicious maps to play on. General Allies is fine as a map for 3v3.....?

Angrymunde is indeed cancerous to play on as Azis and degrades into a even worse than normal lane map/arty clusterf***

Ettelbruck is an arty specialist's favourite map.

Hi guys,

Great points across the thread. I have been playing 3v3 for the past couple years and I would like to lay my humble opinion on map layouts.

-"Across the Rhine": I like this map because, bar the lane boundaries (cliffs and shrubbery), it is quite open and offers good vehicle and infantry movement and as such can make a big range of commanders work. I like the safe position of fuels, because an early snowball (or couple wipes) will lead to light vehicle lock and a very one sided match FOR THIS PARTICULAR LANEY DESIGN.

-"Essen Steelworks": Feels fine on both axis and allies side with well rounded access to fuels

-"Ettelbruck Station": Fuels could swap positions with adjacent neutral posts to make them relatively safe but vulnerable to flanking.

-"La Glaize": Map feels very big and the uphill terrain makes vehicle and AT shots collide too much with terrain. My top 3 hated. I could see VPs swapping with adjacent fuels for more resource oriented fight. Will also make central VP more desirable early on, since remote VP will be safe and lead to decampment.

-"Oka River": Nothing to say, I have had great wins and loses, map feels perfect.

-"Steppes": Map is way too big and awkward. I feel that mid draws too much attention and leaves top part (Double muni) way underutilized. I would put the mid fuel there to draw some fighting.

-"General Mud": Map feels way too big for 3v3. Good map for flanking and anti camping in general. I would contain the left part of the map a little bit, feels like it's way too inaccessible (cap and forget) aside fuel and vp.

-"Angermunde": Similar to Ettelbruck, I would swap the fuel points with their adjacent neutral. I might even go so far as to put them on either side of the central VP for those small scale denials (like Lanzerath Ambush)

-"Red Ball": Meme map.

-"Whiteball": I haven't played it enough, but I would decongest mid a little bit. The church feels awful to fight in and out.

-"Fields of Winnekendonk": I honestly don't know why a map that looks that good feels that bad to play. I would like to see some wooden huts or some logs spread throughout mid to make it more strategic.

-"Hill 400": Feels very good with the location of the cutoff. Incentivizes flanking and mobility.

-"Port of Hamburg": I feel that the bottom right part of the map is VERY VERY unfair for the player spawning at the bottom right spot. That square alley surrounded by pipelines feels like a cage where you have to play contained all game to keep the opposite player busy so they don't 3v2 your teammates mid. The spot should open up and add a building symmetric to the one overlooking the fuel.

-"Rzhev Winter": Overall I like that map. I would eventually replace the frozen rivers with solid land for some more fluidity.

-"Lienne Forest": Personally I haven't seen a map that looks so good on urban part (left) and so awkward on the right part (forest). I think if the forest was a mirror of the left side, the map would be amazing. Maybe move fuels to adjacent neutral posts to reward flanking.

-"General Mud": Map feels way too big for 3v3. Good map for flanking and anti camping in general.

This right here is why mud is great in the 3s pool. 3 players allows for more infantry play as opposed to MG42 spam and bunker camping.

Few complaints about mud though, needs a little attention to in terms of cover placement near back points and the base placement can be really awkward in 3s. Sometimes you get a player in the back and front as opposed to guaranteeing 3 designated slots. Can be really punishing retreat wise.

Essen: Decent idea but cutoffs are too safe and fuels are exactly between teams.
General Mud: Well made
Steppes: No real cutoff play because fuels are between the teams and the fuel south/VPs north split is annoying.
Lienne: Awful
La Gleize: Best fuel/cutoff play by far.
Ettelbruck: Extremely safe fuels which is bad.
Angermuende: Fuels are way too safe and the cutoffs are so far away from your base that you either commit your whole force to take them or you don't touch them. Way too hard to harrass.
Red Ball: Fuel points between teams = 0 cutoff play and just bash your head against the wall.
Across the Rhine: Good positions, wish there was more cutoff play. I'd personally replace the muni points with regular cutoff points.
Oka River: Weird map in general
Whiteball: Very hard to get cutoff play and the fuels are between the teams so all the action is there.
Hamburg: Again, if you focus the whole game on a single point you can't have cutoff play.
Hill 400: Lots of cutoff play which makes the map better than it really is.
Rzhev: Very safe fuel but excellent cutoff positions which allow for either hard attacks on fuel or medium difficulty attacks on cutoffs.

Agreed.
A couple of things: Redball is a good/bad map. It's well designed but the 3 "lanes" are cancerous since you can easily make a defensive wall and if you don't have arty to push it back, it becomes a slow game of probing. Redball needs a medium redesign. Whiteball is great.

Also, a lot of depressions and elevations should be removed from maps (Steppes, hill 400...). They just mess with the game in general. A shot will either phase through ground and hit, or it will hit the Moon or it will just hit the ground 1cm in front of the cannon. 3v3 needs a brainstorm session.

and the base placement can be really awkward in 3s. Sometimes you get a player in the back and front as opposed to guaranteeing 3 designated slots. Can be really punishing retreat wise.

We tried to fix this by creating a designated (6) version of Mud (the far middle spawn got removed like we did on Angermünde).

But unfortunately the wrong version got uploaded to servers so we are still stuck with the (8) version in 3v3

We tried to fix this by creating a designated (6) version of Mud (the far middle spawn got removed like we did on Angermünde).

But unfortunately the wrong version got uploaded to servers so we are still stuck with the (8) version in 3v3

Btw this is general problem of some 4v4 maps in 3v3. The fact that they have 4 spawns instead of 3 leads to situations where spawns arent evenly placed. At least before it was compinsated by units comming from map entry points.

Right now it can lead to a frustrating situations, where on steppes for instance one team can have 2 top 1 middle spawn and second team 2 bottom 1 middle, meaning that taking bottom fuel will be much easier for second team.

Redball needs a medium redesign.

Redball probably just needs entry points from the middle to the sides. But at least UKF and Sov can just destroy this bushes at any time of the game.

And middle logs need to be made destructable or reworked, because they generally provide cheese play with the units that can shoot throw them, especially AVRE and Sturmtigre.

I would spare my opinion about this gamemode too:
Rhein - mostly fine.
Essen - not really satisfied with building around fuel points and some tight ways, surrounded by walls or object (like trains). Overall fine.
EttStation - My favorite map, but obviously fuel is very safe, especially for north-east team. And if Red Army got FHQ in central station building...gg gor jerries.
La Gleize - okish, but very large for 3v3 imo.
Oka River - good map, after redesign one of my favorite. Suddently, it's the only map with ice, where it really can be used as gameplay feature.
Steppes - Just very big for 3v3. As 4v4 map - definetly one of the best. The only issue - very decolored and in general monotonous, but it's not a balance issue.
General Mud - Big, ugly due to weather, and monotonous. As mentioned before - spawn system is a big problem.
Angermunde - fine. In some areas wall were used as fences (lowered to be like fences) and not give cover and vision. Thanksfully, it's not in important areas.
Redball Express - mostly fine. Would like to see somme changes on the center, because some sightblockers can be destroyed on 80-90% (like wall of lubmer around VP) but still not giving the area of sight and units can't shoot throw them. Very confusing.
Whiteball Express - I hate this map in the beginning, but now it more or less okish, at least for 3v3.
VineFields - fine.
Hill 400 - don't know, usually vetoed. iirc was not satisfied with elevations on the center and advantage for east team due to cutoffs.
Hamburg - mostly fine after last huge rebalance.
Rzhev - broken. Winter map with summer skins (apply skins from summer slots), summer textures on buildings and vehicles is ugly as hell. The rest seems fine, additional plus for ice.
Lienne Forest - To big for 3v3, north fuel seems very safe. The rest is fine.

Overall, i think 3v3 has one of the most interesting mappools because:
- Has maps with ice (unlike other gamemodes)
- Has really clutch urban maps
- Has several good open area maps
- Maps are very different in terms of design.

Ettelbruck is improved but is still pretty bad. Mortar pits covering two VPs behind giant buildings and shot blockers isn't terribly fun to play against.