+240 MP Patch

And please, stop with the claims that a Sniper is a Maxim counter. Range and LoS are only 10 difference iirc, as well as Snipers AI tendency to move incloser than it needs to, make it function only under perfect circumstances, and even then the 6man Maxim can soak 1-2 shots and simply reposition into building or LoS with negligable MP cost.

Sounds like you should learn to micro the sniper instead of just right-clicking the enemy hmg.

http://www.coh2.org/topic/10840/r3-spanky-vs-vindicarex - Game 2

Exact same feel as Ami and Devm. I feel there's just far too many units earlygame on the field with 500MP, esp on smaller maps like Langres and Semois, now it really is a spamfest.

Everyone is making a big story about 240 MP but what does it mean?

---> It's less than 1 min of MP income, precisely 49 sec.. What is representing 49 sec on a 25 min game? --> 3 % of your early gameplay has been changed, dont tell me this 3 % make ALL the diference.

Everyone is making a big story about 240 MP but what does it mean?

---> It's less than 1 min of MP income, precisely 49 sec.. What is representing 49 sec on a 25 min game? --> 3 % of your early gameplay has been changed, dont tell me this 3 % make ALL the diference.

Accelerating the game by 49 seconds is one step closer to either one of the following

a) clusterfuck
b) Smaller and smaller earlygame, of which was fun.

And 3% is actually noticeable IMO, esp if the earlygame just disappears.

EDIT: It's like saying in chess, the game stars from the 2nd move. You make whatever 1st move regardless of what your opponent does. In a 60 move game, that's less than 3% but it makes it an even worse game.

Actually, I precise that I'm talking about 2V2 games. I don't play 1V1 games so I can't judge about it.

Its not a +240 increase. That was only in the leaked notes.

What went live is a lump to 500 increase.

Ost had 30 more MP at start iirc. So this patch gave more MP to Sov, than to Ost.
Sov still has the 30 fuel headstart.

Soviet t1 and t2 start became viable with last patch, germans can build one more gren lol or get a sniper or mortar without losing much field presence so its a good improvement that changes meta from grenspam/conscriptspam to combined arms starts. If you want just to spam conscripts or grens you can do it but these 500 mp were not meant to be used to spam grens and cons in first place

Soviet t1 and t2 start became viable with last patch, germans can build one more gren lol or get a sniper or mortar without losing much field presence so its a good improvement that changes meta from grenspam/conscriptspam to combined arms starts. If you want just to spam conscripts or grens you can do it but these 500 mp were not meant to be used to spam grens and cons in first place

I'm not sure about that if you can flank VCoH style with everything, its certainly viable.

It doesn't really change it, IMO, it actually reinforces it.

Ost had 30 more MP at start iirc.

40 MP.

Soviet t1 and t2 start became viable with last patch, germans can build one more gren lol or get a sniper or mortar without losing much field presence so its a good improvement that changes meta from grenspam/conscriptspam to combined arms starts. If you want just to spam conscripts or grens you can do it but these 500 mp were not meant to be used to spam grens and cons in first place

Combining T1 and T2 as soviets is still too expensive if you are planning on getting non-call-in tanks. The fuel costs of the two buildings, combined with the fuel (+ man power) costs of AT-grenades (and optionally molotovs), and the high fuel cost of the T3/T4 building just puts you too far back in the tank war.

For soviets, the patch only really changed that you can now mix in a penal squad or maxim before first getting 3-5 conscript squads. The diversity of tech has not changed, just the timing at which it is available.

Thanks Eupolemos: Editing post to make it less convoluted with errors

I like the change for all of the things extra manpower opens up in the early game. I like being able to build a penal squad early without ceding all map control.

The problem though,seems to be that while it opens up other options, the mp boost supports faster, more agressive infantry spam even more than it supports the alternatives. Maybe conscripts and grens should be 250 manpower. They could also raise the manpower on the molotov upgrade by 50 or 100(if this balance change actually favors russia too much, though snf streams are suggesting that isn't too much of a problem.)

Otherwise revert the change i guess, and go for the faster tier buildings of t1 and t2 and maybe a cheaper penal squad at 300 to 320 manpower.

edit i was wrong apparently so they are different.

So its 40 extra mp for ostheer? how much for Russia? Seems like its about 80 or a hundred more when playing.

No, you've got it all wrong. Before this patch, Ost started with 40MP more than Soviets.

Its not a +240 increase. That was only in the leaked notes.

What went live is a lump to 500 increase.

Ost had 30 more MP at start iirc. So this patch gave more MP to Sov, than to Ost.
Sov still has the 30 fuel headstart.

No. The typed patch notes on the official site are wrong. Both sides got +240 exactly(at least that is what it was supposed to be). Soviet starts with 490, Ostheer start with 530. This is because Combat Engineers are valued at 240 manpower, while pioneers are valued at 200 manpower. Effectively the sides actually start with the same amount of manpower, just that Ostheer have 40 more "raw" manpower since pioneers are a worse combat unit.

That being said... this change still helped Soviet significantly more than Germans. Conscript spam is still alive and honestly just out of control, plus snipers, m3s, maxims all come so much faster now while German is still pigeonholed into Gren spam because MG42s are almost completely useless and your tier 2 tech comes only a few seconds faster.

Also the manpower cost to tech is heavily in Soviet favor. They pay significantly less for their tech structures than Germans do once you've factored in advancing your Battlephase + building the structure - not really sure why this is the case... the only argument I can see is that German tech buildings are more "generalized" but honestly Soviet tech (t1 + t4, t2 + 3) compliments itself so well that you almost never have to build more than two total buildings.

Edit: ^ actually going to correct myself on that. Once you factor in molotovs and/or AT grenades everything evens out, and is actually slightly in favor of Geraman - unless German goes t4.

Edit: after testing it looks like both sides start with exactly 490 manpower... doesn't make any sense to me. This just gives soviet a flat MP bonus over German.

What a mess...