Burnout and Dealing with RNG Frustration

Here is my experience in 95% of the games I have played:
- Enemy mortar is wiping my squads on the move with no vision. My mortar cant kill an MG that has never moved all game long.
- My LeFH kills next to nothing all game long. If it does enough damage to get to vet 1, I will finally get kills on counter barrage. Enemy LeFH chases my units around the map killing them on the move.
- I throw a grenade on a squad, no damage. Maybe get one model dropped. If I see a squad moving towards me in a manner that looks like they MAY throw a grenade, I retreat... and lose 4-5 models every time. It makes no difference if I move, am in green cover, etc. 4-5 models every time.
- My AT guns and tank destroyers miss/bounce the first shot 98% of the time. Enemy pens every shot, every time. Usually from outside the fog of war.
- If I have a squad below 90% health and I retreat it, it is dead. It will not make it. Enemy can be at 30% health and just soft retreat away from me and take no damage.
- My team weapons get flanked they are dead in under 2 seconds. I flank an mg or mortar and my elite inf dies to the support team??? Seriously WHAT IN THE ACTUAL FUCK RELIC moments. Uninstall follows.
- If I click on an enemy squad to focus fire on that squad, my units stop shooting and wonder towards the enemy like they are blind and cant see the enemy. Even if they are 3 meters away. They just stand there like...derp. This happens about 30% of the time.
- MGs, Tanks, AT guns: Enemy is standing right in front of my units clearly in range but my units wont shoot at them. If I click the enemy then my units start shooting. This is REALLY bad with Raketens I have had vehicles park right in front of them and never take a shot. Entire blobs walk right thru my MG arc and it never shoots.

If your luck is really that bad then I suggest you go get a cancer screening because I am genuinely surprised life itself hasn't killed you yet.

If your luck is really that bad then I suggest you go get a cancer screening because I am genuinely surprised life itself hasn't killed you yet.

LUL It is trying my friend. It is trying.

BIAS selection too stonk.


The frustration with RNGesus is not understanding what kind of odds you are taking and the risk associated with it.

If you roll a coin flip situation and you lose and get mad at RNG, then you should had not taken that 50/50 if that decision makes you lose the game.

The whole game is about taking good decisions and mitigating RNG. If you are playing teamgames, subconsciously, you are putting part of your decision making in someone else making your decisions less impactful. For most, this is a stress reliever or removes an anxiety component of been the only one to be blamed by a loss.

Same with been frustrated with RNG. It's easier to blame RNG rather than one self.

BIAS selection too stonk.


The frustration with RNGesus is not understanding what kind of odds you are taking and the risk associated with it.

If you roll a coin flip situation and you lose and get mad at RNG, then you should had not taken that 50/50 if that decision makes you lose the game.

The whole game is about taking good decisions and mitigating RNG. If you are playing teamgames, subconsciously, you are putting part of your decision making in someone else making your decisions less impactful. For most, this is a stress reliever or removes an anxiety component of been the only one to be blamed by a loss.

Same with been frustrated with RNG. It's easier to blame RNG rather than one self.

THIS.

<warning: I got carried away a bit>

This is how you play CoH. The whole game is about mitigation of risk and emphasising flaws/strengths rather than flat countering. Which is why I can play this game non-stop all year round rather than -say- starcraft or C&C, it's always down to chance, My friend lost a Sherman the other day to a stuG after the sherman and his AT gun firing HVAP bounced 5 times in a row. RNG is the best terrible thing about CoH but it's like a drug to me.

Sometimes you get plain unlucky, but the only time this should be a problem is when you only stood to gain from the result, i.e.- bouncing the final shot on a retreating panther. If you get unlucky and lose a unit, you didn't analyse the risk vs reward correctly or didn't have enough info in the first place to make the correct call so you didn't get unlucky, you got what you deserved. (Excluding plane crashes, this needs to be removed in the next game).

Going through @Rosbone's post, nothing personal, he's right, this is everyone's experience at some point and we're all guilty of all of it: I write this for all the usual suspects that REE in game and then stalk the forums for confirmation tbh.

If an enemy mortar is hitting you with laser-guided-nazi-uber-shellen, especially if he doesn't have line of sight, you're unit is probably stood in a place that people predictably stand in. Mortars are inherently extremely random, however if you're not hitting him through FOW and he is hitting you, perhaps he is in-fact spotting you and you just don't know. It's worth noting that mortars cannot one shot infantry models apart from with a direct hit, so if he wipes multiple models, you should probably have healed up, or retreated earlier.

If your artillery isn't hitting anything, they're probably moving away as soon as the first shot hits. Therfore you should be firing artillery at places where you KNOW they will be, fire at retreat points after they retreat or engineers that are repairing a tank and always pair artillery with frequent recon or scouting. Otherwise, true, you will never hit anything. For their artillery hitting you, remove their recon, build AA and move units constantly, sure you may still get hit but again, it's minimising risk. Failing that, doctrine choice. ML-20s and LefHs are extremely easy to counter, stuka dive bomb/IL2 bombs/air supremacy, time on target or railway/240mm immediately kill them, use them as soon as you hear the first shell fire and chances are they won't bother building another because they know what will happen to it.

As for your grenades doing nothing. One grenade is useless imo, even panzergrenadier and other heavy nades. 1 grenade will do nothing because the enemy will/should see it and move, 2 grenades, one where he is and one where he'll probably be and you'll probably get him every time. Twice the price but 9/10 times you throw one grenade, the enemy will dodge it. As for their grenades, why are you letting yourself get hit by them in the first place? simple. Unless they throw 2...

AT guns and TDs bouncing the first shot? hold fire and wait for them to come closer or get closer yourself, the more range you give them the less likely you are to pen, obvious I know, but you shouldn't really expect to pen a comet at max range with a PaK. Failing that use more mines/snares and it doesn't matter if your first 3 shots bounce, they're probably dead anyway. As for your tanks, always assume the enemy will pen, rely on health, not armour. If you rely on your health you can only be pleasantly surprised, if you rely on your armour, you will only be disappointed. Know what your tanks can take and play them as if every shot will pen and you'll never lose a tank to RNG.

If your infantry is being wiped by anything other than a direct hit from the first artillery
or tank shot, you didn't retreat early enough or you didn't heal up before engaging. There is no other side to this, simple as. If they're being wiped on retreat from max health, are you being flanked? In High level play the ONLY time a squad should really be wiped is if your enemy outplays you and flanks your retreat path.

Elite infantry not wiping a support team, either it was crewed with shock troops, in which case, yeh that'll happen, or you didn't flank it as well as you thought. *shrug* use more elite inf or just whack the weapon with artillery. Use smoke to approach and then they cant shoot but you can nade etc.

Infantry wandering about after orders, Attack-move is your friend, you should be using A-move more than attack, you shouldn't really be clicking on units most of the time anyway, I understand sometimes you need to focus fire a setting-up MG from time to time though. It's all due to dodgy LoS blockers so make sure you have clear line of sight before issuing direct attack orders.

Last one, no idea, not really experienced that. Packet loss maybe?

If a person makes a poor play, either the unit will be wiped in which case they deserved it, or they get lucky and the unit escapes miraculously. In my opinion, RNG is actually your friend. In any other RTS that AT gun would pen you every time and that mortar would hit you every time. So the only RNG in my eyes is when it doesn't.

Without trying to sound like a pretentious arse: There is no bad luck in CoH, only bad play.

LUL It is trying my friend. It is trying.

Doesn't seem like you enjoy it much. Paradoxically you rail against rng but play the mode that suffers from it the most, by far. Stormjäger is correct though, you should try 3v3. They're just a touch less chaotic and imo the maps for the most part are pretty decent.

Without trying to sound like a pretentious arse: There is no bad luck in CoH, only bad play.

This is completely wrong. That is the OP and my point.

Just an hour ago I ran some pios up on a sniper. They did ZERO damage. I chased it around shooting it for about 10 seconds closing the distance on it the whole time ...ZERO FUCKING damage. NONE! I test in cheatmods, pios cause 10-15% health on first volley. By second volley they are closer and do even more damage. But in the live game...let me repeat this for you guys... ZERO FUCKING DAMAGE!

That is not some bad roll of RNG. And it has nothing to do with skill. And this shit happens to me EVERY FUCKING GAME.

So the main point is what do you do to mentally accept the fact that the game is broken as all hell and continue trying to enjoy it. Goosefraba.

If an enemy mortar is hitting you with laser-guided-nazi-uber-shellen, especially if he doesn't have line of sight, you're unit is probably stood in a place that people predictably stand in.

You did not read my post clearly enough. Enemy mortars sniping me thru FOW on the move. My mortar cant clear a static not moving MG after 50 volleys that is in plain sight.

Doesn't seem like you enjoy it much. Paradoxically you rail against rng but play the mode that suffers from it the most, by far. Stormjäger is correct though, you should try 3v3. They're just a touch less chaotic and imo the maps for the most part are pretty decent.

I do enjoy the game when it lets me play. And I get an enjoyment very few others do in that I get to play on maps that I had a hand in making.

Every game I have ever played in 3v3 was cancerous. Most of the maps are not made for 3v3. If they are too small or narrow its the same MG+mortar fest as 4v4. And if the map is too big, it becomes make giant blob and 2v1 someone.

I think the coded RNG factors in the game are good and make it fun. Especially to watch.

But some games you dont get to actually play. The server decides you are going to lose and there is nothing you can do about it. And my earlier posts are saying that this it not the coded RNG factors. There is something else going on with server timings or traffic.

Infantry wandering about after orders, Attack-move is your friend, you should be using A-move more than attack, you shouldn't really be clicking on units most of the time anyway, I understand sometimes you need to focus fire a setting-up MG from time to time though. It's all due to dodgy LoS blockers so make sure you have clear line of sight before issuing direct attack orders.

1) Load up a map with CHEATMODS.
2) Make a set of enemy pios.
3) Give your REs the rifle grenade upgrade.
4) Move REs just to the FOW where they CAN see the enemy.
5) Select the REs and then focus fire the pios.

Your REs will walk over to the Pios. Stand there for a second. Then walk around the pios. Then maybe start engaging if your still alive.

This is the behavior I see in game. I see this in many games with many units. Sometimes tanks even do it. Like they just cant see the enemy. Sometimes my units will start attacking for 1-2 seconds then move up a few meters and start attacking again. Even though they are only 10 meters away to begin with. It is like they kill the closest model then CANT SEE the enemy anymore.

I used to say its the server, but then why is my game drawing the enemy units correctly?

1) Load up a map with CHEATMODS.
2) Make a set of enemy pios.
3) Give your REs the rifle grenade upgrade.
4) Move REs just to the FOW where they CAN see the enemy.
5) Select the REs and then focus fire the pios.

Your REs will walk over to the Pios. Stand there for a second. Then walk around the pios. Then maybe start engaging if your still alive.

This is the behavior I see in game. I see this in many games with many units. Sometimes tanks even do it. Like they just cant see the enemy.

I used to say its the server, but then why is my game drawing the enemy units correctly?

RN RETs do not act normally, because rifle nades are not normal weapon upgrade, its the only one in game with minimal range and they will act up if they are within that range.

You should treat them like weapon teams and after selecting target always should press stop command.

RN RETs do not act normally, because rifle nades are not normal weapon upgrade, its the only one in game with minimal range and they will act up if they are within that range.

You should treat them like weapon teams and after selecting target always should press stop command.

- I tested this bug THREE times before posting.
- Then I closed Coh2.
- Posted how to do it.
- I just tested them again and now they wont do it at all.

So three times in a row they bugged out. Now I cant make them bug out. This is precisely what I am talking about.

I knew the REs bugged because I see it in game consistently. So it was an example of what my OTHER units do in game also. Even AT guns and Tanks do the same thing. Act like they cant see the enemy.

- I tested this bug THREE times before posting.
- Then I closed Coh2.
- Posted how to do it.
- I just tested them again and now they wont do it at all.

So three times in a row they bugged out. Now I cant make them bug out. This is precisely what I am talking about.

I knew the REs bugged because I see it in game consistently. So it was an example of what my OTHER units do in game also. Even AT guns and Tanks do the same thing. Act like they cant see the enemy.

I know what you're trying to say and I know what causes it for RETs with rifle nades upgrade and its not a bug, just AI conflict as squad sees its main weapon as upgraded nades, ignores rifles and will just walk forward if within min range if you issue attack order or a-move, but I never ever seen it happen to any other unit in game.

Without trying to sound like a pretentious arse: There is no bad luck in CoH, only bad play.

That's a quite incredible statement to make about a game where players can be punished for their good play by gifting their abandoned vehicles to their enemy.

That's a quite incredible statement to make about a game where players can be punished for their good play by gifting their abandoned vehicles to their enemy.

If you lose the unit in the first place, it was not a "good play" unless you traded it for more expensive one. And if you did traded, you're still in better situation then before + unless it was a suicide charge, you should have anything around to finish it off yourself, if not, again, you're not describing "good play".

If you lose the unit in the first place, it was not a "good play" unless you traded it for more expensive one. And if you did traded, you're still in better situation then before + unless it was a suicide charge, you should have anything around to finish it off yourself, if not, again, you're not describing "good play".

Yes, thanks for pointing out the obvious.

Even if you're in a better position than before after your good play, you are still being arbitrarily punished based on a 5% chance if your vehicle got abandoned in the enemy base. That's nothing but bad luck, which is what the other guy was claiming doesn't exist in this game.

Yes, thanks for pointing out the obvious.

Don't use obvious failure as an argument for good play, so people won't have to point it out then?

Even if you're in a better position than before after your good play, you are still being arbitrarily punished based on a 5% chance if your vehicle got abandoned in the enemy base. That's nothing but bad luck, which is what the other guy was claiming doesn't exist in this game.

Well, you have a degree of control over that bad luck.
Are you too afraid of losing vehicle and opponent getting it in his base?
Don't risk it.
You know the mechanic exists.
You know the chances.
Evaluate the risk, think if you can do with possible outcome and do it or not.

If game is extremely close, it might give you a loss, but that is rarely the case from my experience.

Tbh in my experience playing tournaments brings back a lot of reasons to play the game, goes like that for almost every game i play, getting really good and competing at high levels gives you a much more satisfying feeling than normal play.

As for tilt, just get mad and use that energy to make you wanna stomp your opponent tbh.

This is completely wrong. That is the OP and my point.

Just an hour ago I ran some pios up on a sniper. They did ZERO damage. I chased it around shooting it for about 10 seconds closing the distance on it the whole time ...ZERO FUCKING damage. NONE! I test in cheatmods, pios cause 10-15% health on first volley. By second volley they are closer and do even more damage. But in the live game...let me repeat this for you guys... ZERO FUCKING DAMAGE!

That is not some bad roll of RNG. And it has nothing to do with skill. And this shit happens to me EVERY FUCKING GAME.

So the main point is what do you do to mentally accept the fact that the game is broken as all hell and continue trying to enjoy it. Goosefraba.


You did not read my post clearly enough. Enemy mortars sniping me thru FOW on the move. My mortar cant clear a static not moving MG after 50 volleys that is in plain sight.

It was the enemy's good luck that got that sniper out, not your bad luck, I would ask why you'd flank a sniper with Pioneers in the first place. You must by now know how god-awful pioneers are in combat without a flamethrower, even with flamethrowers, they have 50/50 damage potential. Grenadiers would likely have killed it in the first volley. You failed to kill it mostly to do with your choice of unit, even if it was the only unit you available to do so. The fact the sniper escaped was his good luck, not your bad luck. That risk could have been mitigated and as such it is your fault when the negative outcome happens.

The R in RNG stands for random, the defining factor of that is that you had no control over the result. You had control over the result in that engagement as you could have minimised the odds there greatly but he did not. Therefore he got 'lucky' to escape as he had no control, I agree the pios should have killed the sniper. You did not get 'unlucky' on the flipside though as luck implies it was left totally to chance.

As for what you said about the mortar not wiping the MG after 50 shots. Mortars are soft counter/bleed weapons bud, use a different unit to wipe an MG if it being there is gonna cost you the game. Jesus christ why would you leave it up to one of the least reliable units in the game to kill something so critical. You know what makes mortars have 100% hit rate? firing smoke. Fire smoke at the MG and flank it with assault infantry like anyone sensible.

Guys. This game is a fantasy game like fortnite where you can build large buildings with all the lumber you pull out of your ass. It disguises itself as a historic "realistic" simulator when it's actually an arcade game. This throws me off every time I play after a break. I need to get warmed up and accustomed to the BS that is the mechanics of this game that I always lose the first game. Worse it will match me with a top player as my first game. Still hoping for the day Lelic comes back and makes COH2 great again.
Hoverbacon nothing wrong with flanking a sniper with a pio. The resources are so limited in this game its probably all he can do. They do decent enough dmg close range and can even beat cons. But you have to stand still maybe you don't know that.
I think this game is more fun at 2v2 and 3v3. The army sizes make more sense. In 1v1 the army is too small. And 4v4 is too much of a lag fest, noobs, fps drops etc. Otherwise I like the big games. I lost a game which I should of won in 1v1 because I was pop capped. I couldn't build the right counter unit. I can deal with alot of the BS mechanics in this game if we're given more money to build units with. Because it's inevitable that you will lose units cause something will happen. Or you will face good players that know how to wipe. This is part of the frustration of this game along with other things like PATHING, tanks driving through each other like they don't exist, zis gun bug, lucky RNG explosions that wipe a squad, engineers getting stuck in barb wire, can go on forever!

Another thing is the game speed is too slow. The units move too slowly. Machine guns are so innacurate. Like a 222 at point blank range firing with an mg42 pintle and flak gun should utterly destroy any infantry thats in front of it. But in this game nah, it has horrible accuracy. Also lucky light tank shots are frustrating. Ex: Stuart is pretty inaccurate vs inf but once I lost a retreating full health sniper to a long range stuart main gun shot! When retreating you have lower received accuracy so combine with stuart low accuracy, his chances of hitting are low like 10%?? They need to speed up vehicle movement and things like mortars taking ages to fire. I always get confused in this game are you supposed to attack or defend? It always seems the defenders have the advantage. Moving makes your receieved accuracy go up when actually that doesn't make sense. In reality is it easier to hit a moving target or one standing still?? So it's like its a race to whoever can get to the heavy cover first and sit there. Gren rifle nades are also inconsistent as I've hit direct shots in the middle of say a soviet squad and does like 1 model kill. If you look at the explosion it covers a large area and in reality it should kill everything in that blast radius.

But some games you dont get to actually play. The server decides you are going to lose and there is nothing you can do about it. And my earlier posts are saying that this it not the coded RNG factors. There is something else going on with server timings or traffic.

That is not some bad roll of RNG. And it has nothing to do with skill. And this shit happens to me EVERY FUCKING GAME.

So the main point is what do you do to mentally accept the fact that the game is broken as all hell and continue trying to enjoy it. Goosefraba.

You did not read my post clearly enough. Enemy mortars sniping me thru FOW on the move. My mortar cant clear a static not moving MG after 50 volleys that is in plain sight.

You seem to have convinced yourself there is some conspiracy or big mystery behind the way the game behaves. In reality the way CoH's multiplayer works is by simulating the gameflow locally on each machine and only exchanging data about player input and the like. There is 0% change 'server lag', 'traffic' or anything like that is affecting accuracy rolls, scatter or anything else aside from the obvious (input lag).

If you actually want to understand the game, try uploading replays of things that seem implausible and people will explain what and why happened, and what the odds of it were.

If you can't handle the stress of competitive RTS and really want to believe some supernatural force is making you lose, keep doing that instead.

You seem to have convinced yourself there is some conspiracy or big mystery behind the way the game behaves. In reality the way CoH's multiplayer works is by simulating the gameflow locally on each machine and only exchanging data about player input and the like. There is 0% change 'server lag', 'traffic' or anything like that is affecting accuracy rolls, scatter or anything else aside from the obvious (input lag).

If you actually want to understand the game, try uploading replays of things that seem implausible and people will explain what and why happened, and what the odds of it were.

If you can't handle the stress of competitive RTS and really want to believe some supernatural force is making you lose, keep doing that instead.

The game runs in a constant lag state. That is the only possible way that each machine sees the same events play out. In vCOH this time was much larger and more apparent.

So as many people have said: If the server decides you are dead, you are dead. What you do will have ZERO change on the outcome. Ordinates will veer and turn, chase down targets out of range, go thru blockers, etc.

And as stated, watching the replay may just expose the server issue. If the replay is the actual data from the server and it differs from the presentation locally generated.

The hardest thing to code in gaming is network code. You have to receive inputs coming in for the same event, and the packets are all coming in at varying times. Some will come in after the event has already happened on other players machines.

So please explain how a mortar will wipe your squad on the move within 1 second of having sight of them? That means the mortar was already in the air before it had sight of your squad. So is it a stretch to think you are not running in the same time frame as the person who has the mortar.

To me that indicates you are lagging, enemy spotted you, turned the mortar, and fired several seconds before your unit broke the FOW. Or the server rolled snake eyes and decided you are dead and it just played out regardless of circumstance or logic.

So my point is what I have been saying for years on this site: Tweaking a unit stats a couple percent here and there for balance has ZERO effect on my games. When vetted upgraded obers get rekt by a mortar team support models, would a 2% change make any difference?

This all adds up to an aggregate RNG value much larger than the coded values. Indicating the game is a lot more RNG based than people think it is.