1v1 map issue with Schwerer main gun range

There are certain maps such as crossroads winter that allow the placement of the Tier 4 OKW Schwerer structure near a base entrance while its main gun range can effectively cover and zone out both a cutoff and a fuel on that side. This allows an unfairly powerful strategy of safe Schwerer placement that gives you way too much of a benefit, allowing you to lock down that fuel point and then focus your entire army's attention to the other side, effectively denying your opponent any side switching while you're free to attack his side's fuel. You also don't allow him to switch sides if you take the side he's on, or harrass your fuel. This leads to very consistent fuel income that can be combined with a BGHQ tech path into a very fast P4 or doctrinal Ostwind. The counter strategy of building one or two AT guns to kill the Schwerer is too much of a requirement and risk (720mp spent on AT guns to kill it and you're losing infantry fights hard because of it) vs OKW having 0 risk in just placing it outside their base where they can reinforce and come out to fight it, not to mention how quickly Spios can repair it and allow the okw army to flank the AT guns and if they win the engagement it's gg because the infantry retreats but the AT guns can't. This strategy is too powerful for too litle a risk.


My proposal for a solution to this issue is a reduction of the T4 building’s gun range from 50ish to 40m, reducing its zone of control and allowing harrassment of either fuel or cutoff or both,

Primarily as a soviet 1v1 player, a lot of my mid game play against OKW revolves around punishing schwerers that arent placed inside the base.

Honestly I'm bothered more by maps like regular Crossroads or langreskaya where you can put the scherer practically inside the base yet covering the cutoff.

What about: making its ground fire an active ability tm like the AA fire is with the same drawbacks but a cost? This let's it be used defensively but in spirit to the original okw design at the cost of resource management.

only the maps need to be slightly adjusted. No need to nerf the gun range because of it

Can anyone who's opposed to schwerer changes explain to me what would be the problem with it having a popcost? And making the gun optional?

Same goes for brit base howies, you could even move some of the tech cost to the flak gun/howies since you're getting less for your buck

If it's too big of a change so be it, but imo it's fair and it only gives more flexibility to the player

Can anyone who's opposed to schwerer changes explain to me what would be the problem with it having a popcost? And making the gun optional?

Same goes for brit base howies, you could even move some of the tech cost to the flak gun/howies since you're getting less for your buck

If it's too big of a change so be it, but imo it's fair and it only gives more flexibility to the player

because out of all the factions, OKW struggles the most for popcap. And if it does get pop capped, its guna need buffs such as being able to manually target and attack ground. if u add only pop cap and nothing else then the risks will far outweigh the reward.

because out of all the factions, OKW struggles the most for popcap. And if it does get pop capped, its guna need buffs such as being able to manually target and attack ground. if u add only pop cap and nothing else then the risks will far outweigh the reward.

I already think it should be able to manually target/ag. This just further shows how much of an outlier the flak hq is. Uniqueness is one thing but its outside of multiple basic features of on-map units

I said optional for that exact reason too. If you want the popcap for something else, then don't get the gun and pop the structure in your base. You'll save on say 10-15 fuel, your structure won't be at risk, and no effect on your pop. I think moving some of the cost to gun is a small buff

Not that I give much stock to 3v3 and 4v4, but if it's fine in 3 out of the 4 game modes, it would be unwise to change it because its annoying on some 1v1 maps.

Not that I give much stock to 3v3 and 4v4, but if it's fine in 3 out of the 4 game modes, it would be unwise to change it because its annoying on some 1v1 maps.

I agree with the sentiment, though the fact it's not "OP" in 3 games modes doesnt mean its well balanced overall.

I don't think it's too strong but I wouldnt say no to some minor tweaks like reducing the aoe or suppression if the general consensus is that in specific situations it offers too much utility.

OKW is hard enough to play with. Sort out crazy ZiS 6 men with ultra cheap and deadly barrage, insanely powerful lights (AEC, T70, but also stuart to some extend, Valetine), shocks, pak howie, guards with free ptrs, Sov weapon crates, etc. OKW is in the weakest spot after nerfs to volks and a few other nerfs. I don't think that nerfing its flak without adding some power in other regions makes sense. Allies are so much more potent (tourneys show it more than enough), and you keep insisting on nerfing an already well nerfed faction. I can't understand how it can be linked to balance in any way.

Can anyone who's opposed to schwerer changes explain to me what would be the problem with it having a popcost? And making the gun optional?

Same goes for brit base howies, you could even move some of the tech cost to the flak gun/howies since you're getting less for your buck

If it's too big of a change so be it, but imo it's fair and it only gives more flexibility to the player

For ukf base howis you already need to pay to use them. They are "free" but do nothing without extra costs.

Having a bit of faction diversity and flavor included in teching isn't an issue imo. Frankly I don't think the schwere is an issue either. I find more issue in the flame mades/ smare/ stgs that okw gets for free that they were NOT designed with in mind than their te h structure being able to defend itself if it's placed in a risky location. It functioning well when not in a risky situation is more issue with map design.

Can anyone who's opposed to schwerer changes explain to me what would be the problem with it having a popcost? And making the gun optional?

Same goes for brit base howies, you could even move some of the tech cost to the flak gun/howies since you're getting less for your buck

If it's too big of a change so be it, but imo it's fair and it only gives more flexibility to the player

It wouldn't be an optional thing anymore. Players can already crush one if they want to and if it's more expensive it'll just vanish for the sake of a few 1v1 maps. I haven't seen anything to counter balance the nerf. Cheaper flak trak? Faster mg34 setup / teardown? Just a bunch of proposals to make life harder for okw players and nothing to make up for it.

Can anyone who's opposed to schwerer changes explain to me what would be the problem with it having a popcost? And making the gun optional?

Same goes for brit base howies, you could even move some of the tech cost to the flak gun/howies since you're getting less for your buck

If it's too big of a change so be it, but imo it's fair and it only gives more flexibility to the player

Funny you mention brit howis, because every single time you want them to shoot, you need to pay for it with muni.

Funny you mention brit howis, because every single time you want them to shoot, you need to pay for it with muni.

I dont think OKW players would complain if you gave the schwer a munition based LOS ignoring unlimited range in exchange for removing autofire.

This thread is about map and not schwerer balance. So let try to keep it on maps.


As for UKF base howitzer that have little to do with map or schwerer the they can not be destroyed,even when they do one can simply repair them.

It wouldn't be an optional thing anymore.

It's not optional now. My change allows you to save some resources. If it's such a crucial feature of OKW then plenty of players will still choose to use it

.I haven't seen anything to counter balance the nerf.

I've already said to give it manual targeting/attack ground and for the tech to be cheaper without the gun

Funny you mention brit howis, because every single time you want them to shoot, you need to pay for it with muni.

You spend the muni because they aren't popcap units. They are limited in the same way off-maps are, which also don't have pop. That would change if they were given pop

This thread is about map and not schwerer balance. So let try to keep it on maps.

I think it's pretty clearly about both. I just have a different solution than storm does. I also think I made a pretty good case in the last thread that it's way more than a map issue. Given how many maps have been removed/redesigned since WFA arrived on the scene

As for UKF base howitzer that have little to do with map or schwerer the they can not be destroyed,even when they do one can simply repair them.

I literally only brought them up because biased trolls immediately descend upon anyone who doesn't suggest parallel nerfs to other factions similar units/bonuses. I'm certain you can at least appreciate that struggle, even if you disagree with me

Nerf the range to such an extent so it can only cover one capping point.
And/or require it to be placed further forwards.

The notion that its fine in teamgames is a bit silly too, in teamgames it can be deleted with a coordination of offmap strikes/arti in the blink of an eye so placing it outside of base is asking for it to be destroyed.

Until that time it pretty much poses a simular problem where it can cover much of the backline and disallows allies to extend an advantage.
Whereas axis can pretty much dive all the way into base if the lead is there.

It's not optional now. My change allows you to save some resources. If it's such a crucial feature of OKW then plenty of players will still choose to use it

Pardon, I meant outside of your base. I didn't catch any cost reduction if you mentioned it, sorry.

@sky's would it matter if it's taking up pop or taking up muni? Resources are resources. The UKF muni sink if they use howis a lot, frankly it's more like a made that scales with tech.

Even an "on/off" mode that drains muni like old soviet repair did for the schwere would be OK (under used mechanic imo) would make it more balanced and on point with the okw design