Status of 4v4

A lot of you dont care about 4v4 thats great i dont care about 1v1 its boring. Also i believe statistics say more peolple play 4v4 than any other category.

It really sucks right and here is a few key points on why.

Allied mediums, almost every axis unit has snares a snared allied medium is a dead tank almost guaranteed. A snared panther not a dead tank even snared reverses faster than allied inf can chase it (plus they only have zooks most wont pen). Plus health buff makes it perfect for behind enemy lines attacks with no reprecusions. Allied medium reverses slower shrek blob when shrek does basicly same dmg as a main gun tank hit.

Okw poor design flak truck denying area, even if destroyed by the time it is dosent mean much vs area denial it already caused and the forced all in type of attack it forces allies to use, if it goes wrong way game over.

Super tanks always been fucking dumb build one elephant now all allied armor is useless while you have free reign to use your tanks. Only countered by mark target and heavy all in allied td manuevers also if the guy has a brain prolly all dead allied tanks if he clicks the u button and reverses it, spotting scopes plus most likely an okw partner with arty flares you would have to be a fucking moron to lose it.

Blobs only truly punishable by allied caliope(doctarate required) and a close range katusha ( highly risky takes time to fire unlike alpha strike werfer (oddly really hard to hear with other shit going on) apparently some people dont know how to use it because it deletes units and only has to fire on volley before you put it back) our mgs none of them can pen more than 2 squads and it has to Be microed to even do that. At the same time axis access to blob punishable tools non doctrinal. Promote your blobing but not the enemys.

Arty flares??????? Why is this not fixed. No flanking manuevers cant even set my mg that cant pen units unless supported but they know where it is fucking rediculous.

Allied vs axis inf, well you have great close range units, that great dosent mean dick when i lose 2 models on approach now does it into your fusiler blob. Worthless. Sure i can hide around corners, grenade your blob dosent really seem to matter.

Special note for cry baby okw: they never had a medium tank, people cried they got the best non stock Medium
One, never had artillery because they had non doc stuka that is capable of countering allied artillery, tanks, wipe squads, and make team weapons un recrewable, crybabies: its too hard to counter british emplacements, brit emplacements Were nerfed hard cant survive 30 secs vs a good player with out arty, now in every single 4v4 okw lefh arty hard to get past the flak truck and the fwd retreat, weird sounds like bofors aand mortar pit hmmm. Point is they only got lefh for crybabys that couldnt use alll the other tools to counter brits emplacements in the first place. Brit emplacements get nerfed to useless but okw keeps lefh i dont understand how anyone can see that as wrong.

Okw crybabies claiming they have no
Garrison clearing tools when sturms usually will get to said garrison at first if not can go to a side with no windows and win anway because they somehow shoot through walls, relic gives them flame nuke only its great at death looping all soviet team weps and pretty much great at ensuring winning all first enouncters still

Late game your axis and losing just spam panthers and shrek blobs it will win every single time. Allied inf cant kill any of the shrek
Inf fast enough they just ignore you and or have grenades to make up for it. Allied inf has no at unless you want to blob rangers with zooks, other hand you catch and isu152 off guard with shrek blob its dead. I find it hilarious that in 4v4 smart axis players nust spam shrek blobs and panthers, panthers mg should have shit AI i call it the machine gun carrier its better at killing inf than the eZ8 and thats hilarious. Panthers have too much health allied td spam cant even deal with it.

I mean isu152 HE rounds are saving grace, calliope, priest, maybe croc church, other than that we have shit tools to win a 4v4 on equal skill

There is so much bias in this post I wouldn't even know where to start to debunk it. Go play some Axis and then get back to us. The grass really isn't that much greener on the other side once you're standing on it yourself.

Yikes. What a awful text wall.

I have more difficulty against ostheer than okw. Sure their are a few things things (like the stuka) that I find annoying but you really just should expect this in 4v4 and a lesser extent 3v3.

Also, allies that you even mentioned have cheese too, you are way to close minded.

how about trying to get a balanced outlook on the game by playing all factions instead of reinforcing a pointless and uninformed allies crybabies vs axis crybabies war

Lmao so axis have no advantage vs allies in 4v4. Ok.

Easier to play axis with randoms than allies, Fact. Okw make pansifusiler or mixed blob. Amazing. Then make some raktens attack move them with your army. Amazing. Then make jagdtiger or kt. Wow.

Oh great Sanders community balance man please enlighten me maybe we can at least get arty flares fixed everyone asked for last time but it was the prerogative last time cause you chose it to not be

Well that was really quite a subpar text to read.
I assume that you have not played Axis very much? Allies have excellent units and superior artillery which is probably the most important factor in large team games.

I really like port Hamburg

Axis side is much more easier (foriving tank play (durability/smoke/speed).
Allies does not help bad design, when stronger medium tanks are locked in commander. US and Soviets must choose whether they want stronger infantry or good tanks or arty. It forces them always pick TD and the games are much the same.
From a certain skill dont have good players problem win every side.

Well that was really quite a subpar text to read.
I assume that you have not played Axis very much? Allies have excellent units and superior artillery which is probably the most important factor in large team games.

Although I agree the text is ...meh I do not agree that Allies have superior arty. USF has little to no arty. IMHO, Walking stuka easily beats every other arty piece that allies can throw, especially since it can be aimed to drop on retreat paths and the whole salvo comes fast and ends quickly (if you didn't retreat during the sound, you need luck afterwards). Soviets and Brits do have non doctrinal arty but that's it.
(Major arty takes long to arrive and is bound to his persona which can die easily and as such only good vs MG bunkers and buildings... and he is usually used as a forward retreat rather than arty). Non doctrinal and doctrinal arty is superior on Axis side just as stock infantry is on Ally side.

Truth be told, Axis are usually stronger late game due to non doctrinal tanks with lots of HP and armour (brumm, panther, KT) which can be combined with pre-push stuka and werfer to really take any position. At least from my experience playing standard custom games with friends. My friend playing OKW would drop 2 stukas on expected enemy positions in fog of war and right afterwards I'd push with 2 panthers and maybe Tiger + flamer pios or something. It's a pretty much fail-safe combo. Best you can do as USF is drop smoke and pray that the stukas and werfers are on cooldown. Soviets can call in katyusha which empties the area it's targeting and can then proceed to push with IS-2s or T85s or KVs.
Brits can push with comets or churchills but can't really send infantry squads to front first to throw the arty flare and get supressed instantly.

Point is. The game as such is balanced but the longer the game lasts, the more the emphasis on armour and arty which is superior on Axis side. God forbid you get 2 USF in 3v3 game and go late. Team games are all about teamwork. If one player has commander flares, other gets elefant or jagd and 3rd goes some arty.... unless you're as well coordinated, you're pretty much lost.

The biggest problem with "balance" are not the unit stats, costs or whatnot but the map design and teamwork problems.

Although I agree the text is ...meh I do not agree that Allies have superior arty. USF has little to no arty. IMHO, Walking stuka easily beats every other arty piece that allies can throw, especially since it can be aimed to drop on retreat paths and the whole salvo comes fast and ends quickly (if you didn't retreat during the sound, you need luck afterwards). Soviets and Brits do have non doctrinal arty but that's it.
(Major arty takes long to arrive and is bound to his persona which can die easily and as such only good vs MG bunkers and buildings... and he is usually used as a forward retreat rather than arty). Non doctrinal and doctrinal arty is superior on Axis side just as stock infantry is on Ally side.

Truth be told, Axis are usually stronger late game due to non doctrinal tanks with lots of HP and armour (brumm, panther, KT) which can be combined with pre-push stuka and werfer to really take any position. At least from my experience playing standard custom games with friends. My friend playing OKW would drop 2 stukas on expected enemy positions in fog of war and right afterwards I'd push with 2 panthers and maybe Tiger + flamer pios or something. It's a pretty much fail-safe combo. Best you can do as USF is drop smoke and pray that the stukas and werfers are on cooldown. Soviets can call in katyusha which empties the area it's targeting and can then proceed to push with IS-2s or T85s or KVs.
Brits can push with comets or churchills but can't really send infantry squads to front first to throw the arty flare and get supressed instantly.

Point is. The game as such is balanced but the longer the game lasts, the more the emphasis on armour and arty which is superior on Axis side. God forbid you get 2 USF in 3v3 game and go late. Team games are all about teamwork. If one player has commander flares, other gets elefant or jagd and 3rd goes some arty.... unless you're as well coordinated, you're pretty much lost.

The biggest problem with "balance" are not the unit stats, costs or whatnot but the map design and teamwork problems.

I mean I can partially agree. But I would not neglect that Brits have probably the most atrocious commander for team games with Royal arty. Cheap flares everywhere, especially if the map is split diagonally, reasonably priced base arty even with pyro upgrade and the Sexton. I don't think that it is great that you can only pick one or two commanders if you want to be most effective, but it's still how the majority of team games are played.
USF is on the weak side arty wise, however I'd say the SOV Katyusha is on par with Axis' rocket arty.
Additionally there are more/heavier mortar options with the PaK Howie, and potential 120mm to deal damage. I also find Allies have a bit more common recon options, but maybe that is observation bias.
I do not fully follow on the tank argument though. Yes, Panther's are great tanks, but I found it also very tedious to defend against 60 range TDs. If the Allied players regularly probe your forces at the edge of their range, you can farm a lot of veterancy and keep Axis players busy with repairing. But most of these are very specialized points. I agree that the game mostly comes down to coordination. If you blob your infantry or tanks at the right time once or twice, you can pretty much win the game that way. 4v4 is a weird place.

To be honest most of my experience for large modes comes from AT3v3 and less from 4v4, so things might look more different there.

Things are hugely different in 3v3 vs 4v4. In my few games that I've tried.

A lot of you dont care about 4v4 thats great i dont care about 1v1 its boring. Also i believe statistics say more peolple play 4v4 than any other category.

It really sucks right and here is a few key points on why.

Allied mediums, almost every axis unit has snares a snared allied medium is a dead tank almost guaranteed. A snared panther not a dead tank even snared reverses faster than allied inf can chase it (plus they only have zooks most wont pen). Plus health buff makes it perfect for behind enemy lines attacks with no reprecusions. Allied medium reverses slower shrek blob when shrek does basicly same dmg as a main gun tank hit.

Okw poor design flak truck denying area, even if destroyed by the time it is dosent mean much vs area denial it already caused and the forced all in type of attack it forces allies to use, if it goes wrong way game over.

Super tanks always been fucking dumb build one elephant now all allied armor is useless while you have free reign to use your tanks. Only countered by mark target and heavy all in allied td manuevers also if the guy has a brain prolly all dead allied tanks if he clicks the u button and reverses it, spotting scopes plus most likely an okw partner with arty flares you would have to be a fucking moron to lose it.

Blobs only truly punishable by allied caliope(doctarate required) and a close range katusha ( highly risky takes time to fire unlike alpha strike werfer (oddly really hard to hear with other shit going on) apparently some people dont know how to use it because it deletes units and only has to fire on volley before you put it back) our mgs none of them can pen more than 2 squads and it has to Be microed to even do that. At the same time axis access to blob punishable tools non doctrinal. Promote your blobing but not the enemys.

Arty flares??????? Why is this not fixed. No flanking manuevers cant even set my mg that cant pen units unless supported but they know where it is fucking rediculous.

Allied vs axis inf, well you have great close range units, that great dosent mean dick when i lose 2 models on approach now does it into your fusiler blob. Worthless. Sure i can hide around corners, grenade your blob dosent really seem to matter.

Special note for cry baby okw: they never had a medium tank, people cried they got the best non stock Medium
One, never had artillery because they had non doc stuka that is capable of countering allied artillery, tanks, wipe squads, and make team weapons un recrewable, crybabies: its too hard to counter british emplacements, brit emplacements Were nerfed hard cant survive 30 secs vs a good player with out arty, now in every single 4v4 okw lefh arty hard to get past the flak truck and the fwd retreat, weird sounds like bofors aand mortar pit hmmm. Point is they only got lefh for crybabys that couldnt use alll the other tools to counter brits emplacements in the first place. Brit emplacements get nerfed to useless but okw keeps lefh i dont understand how anyone can see that as wrong.

Okw crybabies claiming they have no
Garrison clearing tools when sturms usually will get to said garrison at first if not can go to a side with no windows and win anway because they somehow shoot through walls, relic gives them flame nuke only its great at death looping all soviet team weps and pretty much great at ensuring winning all first enouncters still

Late game your axis and losing just spam panthers and shrek blobs it will win every single time. Allied inf cant kill any of the shrek
Inf fast enough they just ignore you and or have grenades to make up for it. Allied inf has no at unless you want to blob rangers with zooks, other hand you catch and isu152 off guard with shrek blob its dead. I find it hilarious that in 4v4 smart axis players nust spam shrek blobs and panthers, panthers mg should have shit AI i call it the machine gun carrier its better at killing inf than the eZ8 and thats hilarious. Panthers have too much health allied td spam cant even deal with it.

I mean isu152 HE rounds are saving grace, calliope, priest, maybe croc church, other than that we have shit tools to win a 4v4 on equal skill

After watching your playercard i can savely assume, that everything you encounter is a l2p issue. You are an allies only player in a high 3 digit rating with a win ratio of less than 50%.

Imo allies have better win rates in 3v3 and 4v4 overall.

There is so much bias in this post I wouldn't even know where to start to debunk it. Go play some Axis and then get back to us. The grass really isn't that much greener on the other side once you're standing on it yourself.

But this is gold! I was having a meh day until I read the OP and had a good laugh. It’s almost as if the old 320 armor Panthers returned! Schreckvolk blob around every corner!