Posts: 1890 | Subs: 1
OP: can you just take a bit more time into thinking why the suggestion is bad?
I guess we are going to have 2 more threads.
Volks changes and Rifles changes. Not like they need anything.
Beat me to it. 
Posts: 5279
What about my suggestion: Remove the RA bonuses associated with the 5man upgrade. All grens should instead receive a 20% DPS increase vs suppressed and pinned units. This will allow better players to use the MG42 more fluidly as they can use the grens to keep the bait squad at bay and the MG can turn to face any flankers.
This will force the allies to retreat their baiting squads earlier, alleviating the MG from worrying about several targets.
Posts: 1289
Two important points that could be added:
- cons are much better at recrewing stuff due to higher model count and stock (and free) merge vs. four men grens and pios who very often have to die to do that (often a gamechanger).
- can can build sandbags and have hoorah (both stock and don't require tech)
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Posts: 1527
Permanently BannedAnd here I was thinking that Ostheer uses 5 men grens because it's the best infantry upgrade that beats any other infantry upgrade in the game by a mile.
Posts: 8154 | Subs: 2
Posts: 833
What about my suggestion: Remove the RA bonuses associated with the 5man upgrade. All grens should instead receive a 20% DPS increase vs suppressed and pinned units. This will allow better players to use the MG42 more fluidly as they can use the grens to keep the bait squad at bay and the MG can turn to face any flankers.
This will force the allies to retreat their baiting squads earlier, alleviating the MG from worrying about several targets.
Posts: 1527
Permanently Banned
Remove faust from fiveman and it will encourage players to stop spamming VSL. They will have to mix in a couple of normal LMG grens like soviets do with penals or UKF with engineers.
Fixed
Posts: 5279
Another dreadful idea from you. Please, never talk to me again.
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Remove faust from fiveman and it will encourage players to stop spamming VSL. They will have to mix in a couple of normal LMG grens like soviets do with penals or UKF with engineers.
Fixed
Posts: 1527
Permanently Banned
Idk man I kinda agree with them. 5 man is taking away the weaknesses of grens (mobility and squishiness) as well as giving other bonuses. It shouldn't be a role changing complete upgrade, weapons and packages should either refine their existing role (like the LMG does or 7 man for cons) or change it entirely with trade offs (various smg upgrades)
The reason that 5 man is so easy a choice is the same reason that svt cons is- you get a better version with no big trade off. Both are poorly designed in that regard. There should never be a " completely ignore my core upgrades" style weapon for infantry. They should be integrated and be alongside the stock upgrade not replacing it entirely.
Posts: 127
Just imagine if we said 7man cons lose their snares, or not single but double bar rifles lose their snare. That is way too harsh of a penalty
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Watching games with 4men Grens is very rare nowadays.
As mainline infantry, almost every OST player prefer to go with Osttrupen, AssGrens or 5men grens (Infantry Doctrine).
4men squads are very weak, specially with the lot of explosive damage that are in the late game.
Posts: 311
People don't use 4men grens because they can't bruteforce in the same way they can with other mainlines(something you can do better with 5 men grens).
Their inability to survive explosive spam is much less severe when you get to vet 3 with them. They were specifically buffed in that regard in the september balance update last year:
''
Grenadiers
We think Grenadiers are well-priced for their combat performance, but with only 4 models and reliance on being stationary to deal damage, it made them very susceptible to artillery and AOE attacks. Their veterancy has been adjusted to allow late game Grenadiers to resist explosives better, while retaining their current survivability against small-arms.
Veterancy 3 -23% Received Accuracy replaced by -20% damage reduction
''
So no, grens are fine balancewise. It's that other options just tend to be more popular because you can A + M1 more effectively.
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