USF on life support

I wouldn't mind seeing smoke back on rifles, makes them feel like they should much higher threat and able to pull large flanking manoeuvres. infantry smoke is rare now from USA and that feels wrong. It's almost their signature ability.

Smoke has no right at all being on rifles again. It's on a minimum of 3 units you are forced to have if you plan on getting tanks which more than accessible enough. If that's not good enough it's also on the t0 mortar. And the m20 as drive by smoke, and the Sherman and the pak howi. Usf doesn't lack for smoke at all and should require combined arms to get out of sticky situations like everyone else does.

Smoke has no right at all being on rifles again. It's on a minimum of 3 units you are forced to have if you plan on getting tanks which more than accessible enough. If that's not good enough it's also on the t0 mortar. And the m20 as drive by smoke, and the Sherman and the pak howi. Usf doesn't lack for smoke at all and should require combined arms to get out of sticky situations like everyone else does.

echelons have it too (unless they have flamers or, though im not sure on this one, rifle nades)

Maybe make grenades a free unlock once you Tech up LT/CAP? That would help with the poor mortar performance a bit.

Pak howi is great against ost unless they get mortar HTs and useless vs OKW due to the stuka's performance against support weapons.

Jackson/Scott/Sherman are all fine.

AA HT is meh for shooting down planes and M20 is only good for its mines. 50 cal is solid

Stuart is a little underwhelming. AT gun is solid with muni investment. Pak howi is very good.

I wouldn't really know what to change tbh.

The main problem with usf is, that it doesnt synergise as well with the other 2 allied factions than soviets/ukf.

since soviets are a no-brainer in 2v2 you can boil it down to compare ukf and usf:

usf has the same early game issues as ukf - snipers - without a uc to counter pressure. the ost matchup is worse (atleast on most maps) and i dont think we even have to discuss the okw matchup compared to ukf.

all of their prefered mid-game tools 50cals, pak howi, aa ht etc. are very potent but also fragile and their mainline infantry takes a while to be competetive unlike 5man sections who dont need a heavy muni upgrade to be effective which means ukf has spare munitions to spam nades and/or mines.

usf does have decent combined arms but you simply dont need it with a soviet ally who arguably has the best combined arms in the game.

I do think usf is actually stronger late game, once they have their tools they need - like jacksons, scotts, pak howi, at gun bar rifles etc - on top of less pop cap issues than ukf but getting their is the issue. UKFs early to mid game is simply less fragile

echelons have it too (unless they have flamers or, though im not sure on this one, rifle nades)

Yep, RE were one of the 3 guaranteed units you will have trying to get tanks (starting RE, cap/lieu and major) its impossible to try and get tanks without having at least 3 units, want them or not, that can provide smoke. As usf you would have to try very very hard to not have smoke support for your rifles.

USF is good in 1v1, but since team games focus so much in late game artillery there is not much USF can offer beside the doctrinal Calliope.

This is USF team game meta in a nutshell. You are basically forced to tech Capt and camp with Pak Howies or go Calliope. Otherwise you just get slowly bled by artillery late game with forward trucks supporting ISGs being particularly troublesome on some 2v2 maps. Scotts are fine in some circumstances but can't punish support weapon concentrations or delete squads reliably. I feel like Scotts need their barrage tweaked to better fill a late game role and/or get some kind of White Phosphorus barrage at Vet 2 or something so that you can actually force retreats and punish truck city concentrations.

usf has the same early game issues as ukf - snipers - without a uc to counter pressure.

Isnt the WC51 the US UC-"equivalent" to pressure sniper or is it too fragile for the job?

The main problem with usf is, that it doesnt synergise as well with the other 2 allied factions than soviets/ukf.

The synergy between SOV and UKF is just great:
Sov Cons+Sections is a great combo + Cons give you easy access to snare early on instead of Vet Rifle man or sappers (if you rewatch the the Panther pushes of DevM/Luvenest in UTT2 you see that they always pushed against UKF when the Soviets where at the wrong side or off the map.
Also cons make ost sniper play less effective.
T70+AEC makes it really hard for the Puma to shine, especially if you add Valentine later on.

Just going to do my quick run down of each unit, granted this in current meta with me mostly playing 2s and 4s with only a few in-house 1v1s with friends.
Let me know how you feel or if you agree or disagree, would love to hear how the community feels.

• The USF mainline 5th man dies within seconds of engagement, needs some sort of late game MP adjustment maybe (comparing to volks for cost effectiveness).
  
• RE are a MP sink with little if any DPS, really RNG heavy to get good damage. Pretty sure combat engs/pios are more reliable in terms of damage output.
  
• Pak howi is in a good spot if kept with current meta, recharge might be to fast on barrage.
  
• USF mortar is buggy (smoke bug) barrage is rly inaccurate, hits everywhere but the inner 50% of the visual circle.
  
• M20 is in a good spot in terms of performance, might be cool to see it a bit earlier.
  
• Sturt has no place in meta with fuel cost, AI sucks, needs a role.
  
• .50 cal is in a good spot for cost but AP shells might need more damage (see mg42 AP round damage/ROF)
  
• Major can come late, cost to keep USF in mid game (light vehicles) leads to timing for a Sherman to be late, match up vs p4 on paper is fair but due to delay can often mean 1 Sherman vs 2 p4s
  
• Sherman needs more AP to hold in longer games (someone suggested HVAP shells, maybe an upgrade).
  
• Jackson is good, MP price seems a bit to high 20~40MP cost reduction might work.
  
• Pershing CP count needs to come down by a cp or two.
  
• Assault Engs are good in DPS department, 5th man helps but with current meta asssalt grens can be a toss up in engagements.
  

Stuff that is in a good spot:

• Airborne are fine
  
• Rangers are fine
  
• CaliOP is in a good spot
  
• Scott is fine for price.
  
• Changes to Weapons Rack + Nade Tech cost are good
  

In my opinion USF feels like the worst out of the 3 with being REALLY underwhelming in large matches for the cost that you pay vs its performance.

Please give us a big biiiiiig usf buff, theyre so weak oh my goooood

Pack howie.

USF is a super strong faction that suffers from awkward unit timings and a lack of super late game non doc pushing abilities/units like a katy and a sponge unit that can take the heat off your main forces. USF with a doc picked that counters the opponents doc almost always wins.

Imo stock USF is average but when you pick the right doc at the right time it’s the strongest, which is harder to do in teamgames. Compared to other factions except maybe werh docs are less important.

USF are my favourite faction, but they play weirdly compared to the other Allied factions. They really incentivise patient play with devastating co-ordinated pushes. Sov and UKF can get way more value from poking and probing enemy territory, whereas this just isn't the case for USF. Given how strong their double BAR timing is I really don't think they need a stronger light vehicle and I really think the Lieutenant and Stuart are underrated units. Given the prominence of USF in the current 1v1 tourney further buffs will probably make the faction extremely oppressive.

[Insert complaint about the Skill Howie]

Might get shot for suggesting this but the M8 seems punished really hard at CP 4, could be going up against OKW Pumas by that stage. Hell, the 222 scout car can prob melt it with no real issue. Is the Canister worth it that much?

Isnt the WC51 the US UC-"equivalent" to pressure sniper or is it too fragile for the job?



The synergy between SOV and UKF is just great:
Sov Cons+Sections is a great combo + Cons give you easy access to snare early on instead of Vet Rifle man or sappers (if you rewatch the the Panther pushes of DevM/Luvenest in UTT2 you see that they always pushed against UKF when the Soviets where at the wrong side or off the map.
Also cons make ost sniper play less effective.
T70+AEC makes it really hard for the Puma to shine, especially if you add Valentine later on.

1. yes, in 1v1. Id say the commander is very lackluster in 2v2

2. thats exactly what i meant the soviet/ukf synergy is better than usf/ukf or usf/soviets

If USF is on life support, is OKW clinically dead?

Just going to do my quick run down of each unit, granted this in current meta with me mostly playing 2s and 4s with only a few in-house 1v1s with friends.
Let me know how you feel or if you agree or disagree, would love to hear how the community feels.

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In my opinion USF feels like the worst out of the 3 with being REALLY underwhelming in large matches for the cost that you pay vs its performance.

I agree that USF in team games is under performing whilst in 1v1 it can hold it's ground to anyone.

In random ranked I only play USF and I play 3v3. In that mode I always win early and control the map, flank with smokes, etc. but once T4 comes I can only hope on Jackson to keep the line. I begin relying on Brits and Soviets from some heavier tanks and arty pieces. I usually play Heavy Cav and except the combined forces (USF is not designed for pushes so it's really situational), it's got good abilities (offmap smoke can be a life saver). With that in mind, I would say that USF is versatile and good in early game but you can not go late game with them. Jacksons will get outmatched by Jagd or Ele. Howits by stukas or werfers. Grens with MG42s will wipe infantry pushes. Panthers will outclass Jacksons (roles shift so Jacksons don't need range in most of late offensive situations). And Axis has a Hail Mary up their sleeve. I've seen it quite a few times. Stack as much armour as you can, guess where the mines are not and push (pios scout first). The superior armour/hp will guarantee that any 1v1 combat will be in axis favour.

Summa summarum. USF good in 1v1 and 2v2 all game. Good 3v3 and 4v4 early game. 3v3 and 4v4 dependent on UKF/Soviets in late game. Medium game is also good in all modes because of Jackson and it's ability to hold the line against armour pushes and howi against blobs/early encampments. Like @EtherealDragon said. Late game in team games is arty-fest and USF (doc and stock) is lackluster.

If USF is on life support, is OKW clinically dead?

USF is on a wheelchair.

OKW needs 50 HARD nerfs.

I know this because USF only 4v4 players and some guy who doesn't play but only watches casts and made this thread have told me so.

The USF mainline 5th man dies within seconds of engagement

Damn, plz buff. 5th rifle man is on a wheelchair.

If USF is on life support, is OKW clinically dead?

Yes.

Yes.

Then why were OKW seen in every game last tournament? USF were seen five times