UTT and the 2v2 meta - already stale?

if you can name me one way to counter it that actually is viable pls pm me.

Why the need to PM?
Why aren't you aware of MHT?

My apologies if my post came across as disrespectful, that was not my intention. I wanted to point out the fact that this unit is currently dominant in the tournament so far and that we haven't seen Axis teams find counter strategies.

My personal opinion is that Axis teams are under-valuing shrecks, which could be pushed up the map under smoke cover to force brace on the pit or destroy it while brace is on cooldown. That sort of push should be possible at around 12 minutes, well before perimeter overwatch is a factor.

The fact that even top players like Luvnest have struggled to win as Brit without having a mortar pit up suggests it's a really important unit to neutralise and we're not seeing Axis teams dedicate proportionate resources to doing so. Rocket artillery and howitzers are not effective counters and in any case arrive too late to prevent the Mortar Pit bleed/ VP drain.

Ive been saiyng "Axis OP" for months now, maybe people start to understand why

So you are trying to tell me you were not 100% serious when you said that? I am so confused now.

Why the need to PM?
Why aren't you aware of MHT?

LMAO. You should have PMed him, now everyone will abuse your genius idea.

Mortar HT abuse it is. Time to climb to rank 1 with the new meta!

yes, mortar halftrack can fight the mortar pit but first of all you have to commit to a doc to counter it which is strong (speahead) but not really what you want in the current meta. Also with Valentine and/or AEC, T70 on the field you can push them off pretty easy

Munis for shreks in the early to mid game is also difficult, ostheer has to build 2 med bunkers, upgrade his grens etc. the idea is good but the execution is very difficult. Youre better off with a psuh on the pit with pak support.

USF has always been the worst option for a 2x2 game. And in the last tournament also - 2vs2 Masters Cup. And then too the lawyers of the axis faction said "all the trouble in the map". It's just that the development team, the Germans (Sturmpanter), do not want to fix the problem.

USF is not popular in 2x2. The whole fraction in the game has the problem. But we (Sander and Sturmpanther) will solve the “problem” of T4 osther. This is more important.

In no case do not think that I hate the Germans. On the contrary, I consider them the smart and strong nation. Have made the scientific and technological revolution. The Wehrmacht (not the SS) fought against the Soviet horde (3 million against 9 million). They were strong and brave soldiers. But, dear Germans, I am not saying that the axis in this game is OP. But you definitely pay little attention to the USF.

M20 has ceased to be popular, Sherman E8 is not popular. Calliope was also rubbish, but only recently have you fixed it. But you were very preoccupied with ostwind, stug and T4 oster.

Mortar HT abuse it is. Time to climb to rank 1 with the new meta!

And why I didn’t use it against you in that battle. I'm just a fool.


..You stole vickers from me. And I want revenge.

Munis for shreks in the early to mid game is also difficult, ostheer has to build 2 med bunkers, upgrade his grens etc. the idea is good but the execution is very difficult. Youre better off with a psuh on the pit with pak support.

I hear you but the reason I'm looking to see shrek play is because so many of these maps seems to have shotblockers for the mortar pit. Paks are also very vulnerable when pushed so far up - in one of your games Luvnest ended up losing his Pak to Seeking's mortar pit because of a double hit. If Ostheer are too muni starved, might it be viable for OKW teammates to equip Panzerfusilier shreks? I'm not desperate for a return to Grand Offensive meta, but the smoke from that commander could be very useful to support the kind of push I'm thinking of as well.

Brit's need a non-doc indirect that doesn't need a sacrificial inf charge so badly. The emplacements are so hard to balance because they become useless in some game modes or overpowered in others.

e.g. the mortar pit & 17pdr could be replaced with a 'heavy weapons emplacement'. Basically trench built by Ro.E that can be garrisoned (and degarrisoned) by a mortar crew (added into the roster) and the 6pdr. Then give the garrisoned unit some ability or buff for it's trouble (ROF/range etc).

UKF gets the bread and butter units (faction variety can go too far) but still have a nice quirk that's not as cheesy as the pop-cap gobbling, wildly effective then pointless (depending on game mode) emplacements.

Take the bofors model, strip the gun from the centre and use that. Can make the garrisoned weapon invulnerable to decrewing, weapon is abandoned on the floor when the emplacement is destroyed. Obviously this would be cheaper but not as strong as current emplacements and not take up any popcap (since they're technically neutral like trenches)

IMO all of this talk about mortar pit etc. is just BS. Mortar Pit was considered average or bad by most people and just because we now had plenty of tournament games on Wolfheze it is somehow OP? I watched most of the games of the UTT qualifiers too and outside Wolfheze I can't remember a Mortar Pit being that big of a deal in any of the games.

The real issue is the combination of Infantry Sections being slightly too good and OKW being slightly too weak now that Grand Offensive is not able to carry them anymore. All the other doctrines are also mediocre compared to what the other factions have. The only exception is probably Overwatch on open maps when you can vet up two Jägers. The rest is just meh.

IMO all of this talk about mortar pit etc. is just BS.

The real issue is the combination of Infantry Sections being slightly too good and OKW being slightly too weak now that Grand Offensive is not able to carry them anymore. All the other doctrines are mediocre compared to what the other factions have.

OKW is not weak. Volks for 260/25 manpower fight against Tommy for 270/28. And Tommy at the beginning have only 4 models. Moreover, the first vet does not add the bonus to the combat characteristics of the Tommy, and the Volks get bonus to the target size. At the same time, Tommy still does not have AT grenades. The whole advantage of Tommy is paid for by a higher initial price, expensive price for the 5th model, special costs for grenade technology, and special costs for weapons racks. When Volks can have grenades, faust and stg44 after T1.

Why do axis funboys never take these nuances into account?

IMO all of this talk about mortar pit etc. is just BS. Mortar Pit was considered average or bad by most people and just because we now had plenty of tournament games on Wolfheze it is somehow OP? I watched most of the games of the UTT qualifiers too and outside Wolfheze I can't remember a Mortar Pit being that big of a deal in any of the games.

The real issue is the combination of Infantry Sections being slightly too good and OKW being slightly too weak now that Grand Offensive is not able to carry them anymore. All the other doctrines are also mediocre compared to what the other factions have. The only exception is probably Overwatch on open maps when you can vet up two Jägers. The rest is just meh.

I'd say that it was valentine that carried them even more than a mortar in general.

Nobody plays usf simply cause most of the maps arent good for usf, elst is the only decent usf map and eindhoven is playable but players want to train a faction they can play on every map.

Mortar pit reign of terror should be no surprise, it always has been a good unit. All you need is someone to guard it and a decent spot for it.
And you "balance experts" think we tourney players havent thought of countering it??? pls be more disrespectfull, thanks. if you can name me one way to counter it that actually is viable pls pm me. You need a good team push on the mortar pit which, let me tell you, is not that easy against good players
Leigs dont work, dont even try

PO gonna be banned so no need to worry about that

Ive been saiyng "Axis OP" for months now, maybe people start to understand why

I think what creative is trying to say here is that we have to focus on Axis.

The mortar pit is not inherently op. The issue is that Axis has troubles vs Allies, especially in the early game infantry department and against the freshly buffed brits. The OKW vs UKF matchup highlights this pretty confidently. Volk dps part.[Debunked by sanders]. In the 2on2 games I have seen that OKW is completely depending on his Ostheer ally to provide support in order to deal with UKF. Such as a sniper or MG. The core strength of volks was usually their good long range DPS, now they have to face a faction that topples their long range dps by miles.

This gets emphasizes even harder as OKW is pretty much forced into getting mecha first. Why? Because Axis playstyle is completely reactive these days. You need to counter certain Allied units or you are fucked for the most part. This gives most of the momentum and adaption options to Allies, as sections and the t70 for example are basic units.

Meaning even obers will de delayed and therefore most OKW's just get better scaling infantry in the first place. Axis simply has very stale adaptation options due to the constant nerfs to their core units and the delayed pigeonholed tech of OKW in combination with oppressive units such as the t70. Once upon a time one of OKW’s strength were the option to build hq’s across the map. This “option” is literally dead in any competitive game, and it was never being accounted for.

At this point it is hard to push and punish Allies if the opponents are about even in skill. If your infantry is inferior in the early/mid game there is no good way to push into a mortar pit, and that seems to be core issue. It’s very hard to push into a pit that is defended by sections, mgs and maybe a sniper if your infantry is already struggling in the first place.

Many OKW players have already reported that dealing with sections is hard, not to mention UC's and a sniper. If you need several units or even doctrine units, as such PF's, jaegers and whatnot, simply to deal with a basic start unit of another faction something is obviously wrong and has to be looked at.

The next issue is the wipe potential of axis squads. Okw in particular has troubles wiping squads, as usually they lack any form of strong AoE in early and mid game. Volks nade does not kill. Luchs has to chase a lot. Stuka is usually dodged, if a leigh actually kills a model it’s a Christmas gift. The most wipes that usually comes for Okw players is by a P4 or ober nades, or just chasing/ the opponent being afk.

SOV for example have great potential due to numerous barrages on even just a zis gun, guard nades which come earlier than obers, isu's (which is overperforming anyway), mortars,t70 and so on. This causes another imbalance in my eyes.

Why do axis funboys never take these nuances into account?

Maybe because you're delusional.

I think what creative is trying to say here is that we have to focus on Axis.

What CN has been saying with the "Axis OP" meme is that even though Axis might be slightly to incredibly UP, the belief in people that Axis is OP will not be shaken off no matter what.

The real issue is the combination of Infantry Sections being slightly too good and OKW being slightly too weak

More like OKW being straight up a dead faction. Who could have predicted that, I wonder.

One section has roughly about the same DPS as two volks in green cover

They don't. Volks have about 12,14-10,4 DPS at range 25-30 (which is what I'd say is the most common long range engagement range) and 4 men Infantry Sections have 13,93-12,68. Bolstered IS without Brens (the most commonly used upgrade composition) have 17,42-15,85 while upgraded Volks have 15-12. Furthermore, Volks get their accuracy veterancy at vet 2 already while IS get it only at vet 3.

The reason they outtrade Volks at range is because of their superior target size giving them much higher effective health. Not because they have higher DPS, because it's pretty similar (except for when they get double Brens obviously).

They don't. Volks have about 12,14-10,4 DPS at range 25-30 (which is what I'd say is the most common long range engagement range) and 4 men Infantry Sections have 13,93-12,68. Bolstered IS without Brens (the most commonly used upgrade composition) have 17,42-15,85 while upgraded Volks have 15-12. Furthermore, Volks get their accuracy veterancy at vet 2 already while IS get it only at vet 3.

The reason they outtrade Volks at range is because of their superior target size giving them much higher effective health. Not because they have higher DPS, because it's pretty similar (except for when they get double Brens obviously).

i went with this

https://i.serealia.ca/files/coh2dps.html#134

i went with this

https://i.serealia.ca/files/coh2dps.html#134

This displays DPS per weapon. You need to multiply these values by the number of entities in the squad carrying that weapon. So even though the Lee Enfield has roughly 60% higher DPS than the Volks Kar 98K, the total difference in DPS isn't that high because Volks get a 5th entity at the start.

This displays DPS per weapon. You need to multiply these values by the number of entities in the squad carrying that weapon. So even though Lee Enfields have roughly 60% higher DPS than the Volks Kar 98K, the total difference in DPS isn't that high because Volks get a 5th entity at the start.

got it,ty

I can't believe people who think Axis OP/ USF unplayable. USF vs Ost is almost as lopsided of a matchup as OKW vs UKF. It's not even funny how much better riflemen are vs grens. And as if that wasn't enough, the officers also got the buff AND IF THAT STILL WASN'T ENOUGH nade tech just go 50mp cheaper because god forbid, USF somehow takes a bad engagement and can't save 2 rifle models (56mp) to tech nades. Top level Ost players know this and avoid using stock grens at all costs. Stock grens also bleed hard against sections now. They are nowhere near as cost effective as sections. Ost build orders include either 5man grens, ostruppen, agrens, or a T1 skip.

Rifles got buffed to the point where they can charge sandbagged volks from max range and still win despite only costing 20mp more.

Anyone who thinks USF or UKF is UP needs to L2P. PERIOD.