Sneaky PIAT commandos

As much as I agree with you that Commandos with PIATs are strong enough to be viable, there is no such thing as 'elite' PIATs.

I think there is tbh and I am quite certain about it. Just like on paratroopers and rangers the UKF got their own toys. Are You really sure, as the icon exits, maybe it doesn't work.

I think there is tbh and I am quite certain about it. Just like on paratroopers and rangers the UKF got their own toys. Are You really sure, as the icon exits, maybe it doesn't work.

I really dont think theres elite piats




oh, you cant see it. but the IS at the top is Vet 0, same as the tiger. i zoomed out too much so the ui disappeared

I really dont think theres elite piats




oh, you cant see it. but the IS at the top is Vet 0, same as the tiger. i zoomed out too much so the ui disappeared

You're goooooood. I checked and You guys are right and I stand corrected - thx. It is better bren handling, not piats. But to the original post - they are very similar with piats to the feared shrecked pzgrens.

Isnt the piat a mortar?
If so, when exactly were mortars designed to be close quarter weapons?

A mortar is generally considered to be a weapon which uses an explosive charge to lob a projectile in an arc rather than propel it with enough force to hit its target directly.

The PIAT is a mortar in that sense as the projectile is designed to be lobbed onto a tank, but not indirectly. Its effective range is quite short compared to the bazooka and its derivatives.

You're goooooood. I checked and You guys are right and I stand corrected - thx. It is better bren handling, not piats. But to the original post - they are very similar with piats to the feared shrecked pzgrens.

No, they are not.
Not even close.
Try the same against front armor and you'll know why.

But to the original post - they are very similar with piats to the feared shrecked pzgrens.

Yeah, I guess when they are at midrange, firing at the rear of an AFK Tiger they are kinda maybe similar XD

I'm not too fussed about the piat Commandos though, just make sure Partisans and Stormtroopers etc. lose their Shrecks/Stealth as well and we're fine I guess.

...just make sure Partisans and Stormtroopers etc. lose their Shrecks/Stealth as well and we're fine I guess.

Stationary camo is fine, for sure. All of those units should have it - a cool feature. I guess the "moving" camo is the issue that can be overused and, of course, all the above squads should lose it (including Falls). I guess it could work if they lost their camo when moving, even in cover, after 2-3 seconds. That would require stopping even in cover every 2-3 seconds. It would be real sneaking, more micro intensive, not running head on.

No, they are not.
Not even close.
Try the same against front armor and you'll know why.

But it is comparable for mediums and below. They can equip one or two, which gives more flexibility. With mediums, piats could be even better as commandos are more durable and will usually have a chance to shoot more rounds before they need to retreat. For heavies it isn't too bad either. Imo it is absolutely comparable in real game scenarios when such units often just add up their damage to other at sources.

But it is comparable for mediums and below. They can equip one or two, which gives more flexibility. With mediums, piats could be even better as commandos are more durable and will usually have a chance to shoot more rounds before they need to retreat. For heavies it isn't too bad either. Imo it is absolutely comparable in real game scenarios when such units often just add up their damage to other at sources.

No, its not, because axis mediums have much higher armor then allied ones and shrecks have 100% pen against all but few USF doctrinal ones.

No one in his right mind will ever equip 1 piat on anything-yes, you can do it, no you should not do it, because you aren't going to be able to kill even kubel and even pwerfer or stuka will have a chance to run from it.

You're grasping at straws while avoiding facts.

Its time to stop making excuses and start learning the game.
Check steam forums, there is one eager there to give tutorials and lessons to newbies.

No, its not, because axis mediums have much higher armor then allied ones and shrecks have 100% pen against all but few USF doctrinal ones.

That is a myth. Ostheer p4 is not really different to sherman (and pzgrens are ostheer so that is the valid comparison). Stug will also suffer greatly from hand-held ats and of course ostwind can be penetrated if you want to risk some more. No difference here - maybe one - those piats or bazookas cvan be equipped by all UKF/USF units. So even losing models when charging against vehicles won't cost/make you risk much.

No one in his right mind will ever equip 1 piat on anything-yes, you can do it, no you should not do it, because you aren't going to be able to kill even kubel and even pwerfer or stuka will have a chance to run from it.

You are wrong. Top players probably won't do that intentionally, but even they may be forced to look for some stopgap measures when they are starved for munitions. Axis will just die if they aren't prepared while you can always spend only 50 munitions and fend of some vehicle. It can often save you the game. Especially, because any unit can pick a piat or a bazooka. There are plenty of other scenarios when flexibility of equipping 1 or 2 weapons on any unit can pay off greatly. There were whole threads on the forum of how dangerous it may be when axis infantry could equip only one shreck. Somehow magically, when it is the allied even elite infantry, forum members like You don't see the same problem.

You're grasping at straws while avoiding facts.

It is the other way around I'm afraid. You are making people believe in myths based on intended unit performance when the game was created. A very long time ago. IMO it is not pushing the balance forward.

Its time to stop making excuses and start learning the game.
Check steam forums, there is one eager there to give tutorials and lessons to newbies.

That is actually quite funny. My only problem with the game is not using keyboard much. I'm so used to mouse clicking. For a peron that plays one game every few days and not using smurf accounts my ladderboard is pretty decent.

But to the topic. Camo really should only work for 2-3 second after the unit starts moving in cover. It should stop working after it leaves cover or after 2-3 second of continuous movement. If a player stops before 3 seconds, the value is reset, and the camo continues to work. If the player keeps moving for more than 3 seconds, the camo is lost. It will reactivate in cover and only when the unit is out of sight. This would allow some sneaking and not be cheesy. Of course, snipers should retain the camo they have.

That is a myth. Ostheer p4 is not really different to sherman (and pzgrens are ostheer so that is the valid comparison).

Allied meds have 160 armor.
Ost P4 has 180 armor, 234 at vet2.
Piats have much lower pen then shrecks.

Not really even going to read anything past that as I expect it to be equal pile of liquid, steamy, useless, delusional bullshit.

To avoid being completely delusional and detached from any kind of reality in the future, I suggest you bookmark this site and start using it frequently:

https://coh2db.com/stats/

Remember the time when Raketen could camo and sneak behind lines to takeout rocket arties? This commando+PIAT combo is just that...so why shouldn't this be addressed when raketen got nerfed?

Raketten didn't require cover to move in stealth, while Commandos do. Having so much yellow cover on the map that commandos can sneak up so far is a rare occurance. Unlike rakettens, which could do it no matter what the terrain.

Allied meds have 160 armor.
Ost P4 has 180 armor, 234 at vet2.
Piats have much lower pen then shrecks.

Not really even going to read anything past that as I expect it to be equal pile of liquid, steamy, useless, delusional bullshit.

To avoid being completely delusional and detached from any kind of reality in the future, I suggest you bookmark this site and start using it frequently:

https://coh2db.com/stats/

This is derailing the thread imo.
Short explanation:
Show Spoiler
At the same time you are defending a rather unitended mechanics of camo units constantly walking camoed lategame in long games. Instead of addressing the issue form the thread title you keep downplaying allied units strengths supporting Your arguments with repeating myths.

Just to remind You - commandos are deadly close range, have ambush bonus (probably affecting piats as well - to be checked), can lay demo charges, have great veterancy which includes free smoke covered retreats. They can equip any guns from the racks, which gives them a lot of flexibility. And on top of that they can camo. Everything would be fine but You keep insisting that running head on with them between units lategame and not being seen is fine. Well, to me it is broken. And should be "corrected" across factions with the exception of snipers.

Having so much yellow cover on the map that commandos can sneak up so far is a rare occurance.

Yes, exactly - rare. This is, luckily, the state of balance. The polishing that is left should deal with such stuff as it is abusive imo.

snip

Unless you want to present an actual replay or clip as evidence to back that laughable claim of yours, its just void theorycraft with no ground to stand on.

Unless you want to present an actual replay or clip as evidence to back that laughable claim of yours, its just void theorycraft with no ground to stand on.

It was provided in op. I had quite a few games where falls were running like crazy across the whole map lategame using craters. This mechanics is just broken for powerful units. Ambushes should be real ambushes not full speed charges.

It was provided in op. I had quite a few games where falls were running like crazy across the whole map lategame using craters. This mechanics is just broken for powerful units. Ambushes should be real ambushes not full speed charges.

And as explained in following posts, this and every other mechanic is "just broken" if you completely ignore opponent doing it and do not even attempt to counter it.

Do you know how overpowered TDs are when all you build is vehicles?

Do you know how overpowered HMG spam is if opponent only builds mainline inf?

Do you know how overpowered mines are when you never sweep?

Do you see how it all circles back to L2P problem?

And as explained in following posts, this and every other mechanic is "just broken" if you completely ignore opponent doing it and do not even attempt to counter it.

Do you know how overpowered TDs are when all you build is vehicles?

Do you know how overpowered HMG spam is if opponent only builds mainline inf?

Do you know how overpowered mines are when you never sweep?

Again, imo, You are derailing the thread with those really bad comparisons.

The problem with countering it is that you probably should build a useless otherwise unit just to spot them and your opponent will have manpower advantage as they don't have to really "invest" in this ability. Whether cloaked or not those squads are really powerful elite infantry units. The amount of micro and resources to counter just their camo will mean that you are loosing in other areas. I suggested that stopping with such units to retain camo might do the trick of balancing their camo better.

I'm not derailing anything.

You are trying to pinpoint your lack of awareness and improper unit composition on balance and refuse to admit to it.

Gimmick based plays can work once per game, if it keeps working against you, you've failed to adapt and that has nothing to do with balance.

I'm not derailing anything.

You are trying to pinpoint your lack of awareness and improper unit composition on balance and refuse to admit to it.

Gimmick based plays can work once per game, if it keeps working against you, you've failed to adapt and that has nothing to do with balance.

What you are writing just makes no sense. It is completely not related.

The point of balance at this stage of the game development is to pinpoint such things. The possibility of elite squads running full speed in camo across half the map is a balance issue of a decently balanced game (such gimmick issues are exactly what should be now corrected). It has nothing to do with unit composition or a player skill. To me it is broken as it allows those powerful squads run past other units very close range without being detected. Imo it is unintended and feels unnatural and will lead to frustration rather than the feeling that a player was outplayed.