Unbalanced pay commanders

Pay to win? Don't be silly!

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are you retarded or something? if tiger ace blitz into them it can kill as much su85 as he wants

Are you retarded? 1 t34 threatening to ram him if he flanks will stop that

Just dont buy them. That is the only language they speak (money).

+100000000

I remember how people went batshit crazy on GR after relic had announced for the first time that coh2 would have DLCs. Then they kept promising time and time again that the DLC wouldn't affect multiplayer balance in any way.

I'm having major lols reminiscing that

+100000000

Dude.. who ever plays to win in this game will always buy OP commanders for 3,90$ which will give them "free" wins. Just a pointless comment by Budweiser tbh.

If you are weak minded enough, that paying to win a game on the internet rather than earn the win by actually playing well is that important then go ahead. Just know that you are part of the problem not the solution. For every 15 year old pimpled kid who cant stand losing its another $4 in Relic's pocket and a worse game in the end.

It seems pretty detrimental to the game's long-term health to have a ton of people checking on the new balance patch to get put off by a simultaneous commander release. I'm very surprised that the new commanders have come out in the state they've come out in - better than the last launch but especially the Soviet Industry and to an extent the German Elite Troops doctrines both seem patently too powerful to the extent that there's very little discussion of either the excellent host of balance changes and the other commanders, either here or elsewhere.

Now, I think new, even paid, commanders could be a healthy addition to the game but I think the following set of principles would really help them integrate properly with it:

A) they need to be timed separately to the balance patch so feedback on the patch and people resuming play as a result of the patch can go ahead without being drowned out by the commander feedback.

To an extent even just releasing four to six commanders simultaneously, while very understandable, makes it hard to give decent feedback on the individual commanders on account of them all being matched against other commanders that also haven't undergone balancing... but at least keep it separate from the patch.

(which is why we have idiots answering every point made to balance one commander by saying 'well, you can just get that commander' or 'do you think instant vet's balanced then?' and the like)

B) there needs to be provision for quick, effective balance and bugfixes on the new commanders soon after their release. Having a commander hang around with patently OP or broken features for the month until the next bugfix is really offputting for players. Doubly so if it seems like every time the new commanders have been mostly fixed there are suddenly new OP commanders in the game.

C) the current paid commanders all seem to have been released in a state which I cannot imagine competent beta players feeling was appropriate for release. I don't know how long they spent in the beta or how many changes were made on account of that feedback but the answer to one of those questions is simply not enough. I don't expect new commanders to be perfectly balanced but the issues with a four-five minute T-70 really should have been spotted and mitigated before release, in the same way that free FHQs and some of the Ostruppen trench features were pretty inexcusable obvious issues in the last bunch of commanders.

D) I'm really pleased with the extent to which Relic are fleshing out the game's core features and getting it up to industry standard after what must have been a very difficult release. Certainly, if the input lag is fixed, the buildings and veterancy systems radically improved, worldbuilder, chat, map vetoing and many other features added in, I think there is some hope for the game in the long term. That said, if Relic is genuinely serious about trying to make COH 2 an esport, they *need* to improve their playtesting and system for releasing commanders. It's currently undermining the good work of the balance team and overshadowing really important new features and possibilities in the game.

(as an e) I theoretically like most of the new commanders - I think they're interesting ways of changing up the game. I just don't think that especially the paid ones are anywhere near balanced and that the continual use of 0cp abilities in doctrines is more or less inexplicable in these doctrines (so, why on earth would the instant-vetting not come at 1cp, for instance? It seems like that would fit much more within the paradigms of the basic commanders) except by the idea that you're giving someone instant access to something they've paid for, which, I think, is a bad principle for an RTS game balanced on these CPs to work on.)

Tl/dr: - balance updates and new commanders should be separate
- new commanders need to be fixed outside the normal patching schedule
- new commanders are overshadowing all of the general improvements made to the game. This is bad.

If you are weak minded enough, that paying to win a game on the internet rather than earn the win by actually playing well is that important then go ahead. Just know that you are part of the problem not the solution. For every 15 year old pimpled kid who cant stand losing its another $4 in Relic's pocket and a worse game in the end.

Was that comment pointed on me? Anyways: I have not bought commanders and most likely I won't. I just want you to know that your plan will never ever work. People will always buy commanders and theres nothing you can do about it.

Couldnt agree more with the OP , and budwise's suggestion which is to not buy those commander is the most appropriate reaction i ve heard in some time in response to the DLC spam .

On the fact that it is expected for the new commanders to be OP because the beta tester pool is limited i say BS . I was able to predict what would happen with both payed commanders without even playing them . I am pretty sure that the beta tester team which is far more qualified to do that than a random guy like me and has been playtesting this for weeks had no problem picking up on that .

I thought people would have figured by now the policy that is being followed with the payed DLC , first they buff some of this stuff massively then when they get the money they tone it down . And it does sound like marching orders from Sega tbh .

By the way Relic and sega i d much rather pay a monthly / weekly subscription or some time fees , or completely separating the single player and multi player packages allowing me to invest more money where i wish and have the full game available to me when i wish rather than this abhorent buisness model which breaks the game in tiny parts to the dismay of all since it is less balanced and enjoyable and i end up having to pay the game 2 times instead of one ! Not to mention that almost all the cool commander abilities and units i have to pay to obtain them . Which isa the reason i have bought NONE OF the payed DLC

Another thing that most ppl fail to observe is that the more commanders one has the more strategical flexibility he has which is the reason PPL IN snf have all the same choices so i guess the game is P2W even though it is in a game breaking level for a very small ammount of time ( 1st or 2nd day after the dlc is available and the vast majority of purchase is going on )and the rest of time its a small advantage ( in high levels of play cause in lower ones assgrens its a lot more prevalent ) .

Was that comment pointed on me? Anyways: I have not bought commanders and most likely I won't. I just want you to know that your plan will never ever work. People will always buy commanders and theres nothing you can do about it.

Just a general opinion of people who jump at the chance to pay to win.

The Partisan commander seems balanced at least.

Quick question, what does the munitions upgrade for the partisans do exactly?

I remember how people went batshit crazy on GR after relic had announced for the first time that coh2 would have DLCs. Then they kept promising time and time again that the DLC wouldn't affect multiplayer balance in any way.

I'm having major lols reminiscing that

See if you are planning to not care that much to begin with, and with confidence be happy about your game no matter the reception of it's "balance", then that statement is truthful

- Marketing Department, yours truly

It certainly is more popular to complain than to discuss how to deal with stuff (strategy forums on GR always propelled by a small % of posters, its the same here)

Budwise I think a lot of the long time playing COH'ers also grew up a lot. If they have a bad game or 2 out of their busier scheldule, they are more prone to rage if they don't get what they hoped for

Part of what makes COH 1 or 2 so good is how back and forth the games can be or how "hanging in a thread" it can feel like

And also how you rage and get mad when you lose

Was that comment pointed on me? Anyways: I have not bought commanders and most likely I won't. I just want you to know that your plan will never ever work. People will always buy commanders and theres nothing you can do about it.

Chillty thanks for the enjoyble games we have had ingame

As a sort of devil's advocate here ( But I hate DLC as a concept )

Isn't a bit weird to complain about value of a product you haven't tested?

The new DLC is extremely fun

Chillty thanks for the enjoyble games we have had ingame

As a sort of devil's advocate here ( But I hate DLC as a concept )

Isn't a bit weird to complain about value of a product you haven't tested?

The new DLC is extremely fun

Fun maybe,but clearly unbalanced

Isn't a bit weird to complain about value of a product you haven't tested?

The new DLC is extremely fun

I have seen streams of these 4 minute T70s so I think I know the most about that doctrine. Like how it took 5 seconds to build t1 and t3.
I got the Tiger Ace doctrine as a gift and tested it in a custom game. I don't know for sure how "OP" this doctrine is, but giving units vet3 for 55 MP and 20 fuel and calling in a vet 3 Upgraded tiger ace which stops your ressource income entirely is just retarded.

I got the Tiger Ace doctrine as a gift and tested it in a custom game. I don't know for sure how "OP" this doctrine is, but giving units vet3 for 55 MP and 20 fuel and calling in a vet 3 Upgraded tiger ace which stops your ressource income entirely is just retarded.

i think people are forgetting that vet isnt nearly as powerful after this patch.

i think people are forgetting that vet isnt nearly as powerful after this patch.

I know that, thats one of the reasons why I don't know if I should call this doctrine "OP" or just "retarded" Or maybe both words would fit?

O well, at least I can start painting my space wolf army. this will be month 2 of no play for me, and I think 120 euros down the drain. Game is sooo broken at the moment it aint even a joke. Multi mollies and OP P2W DLC

i think people are forgetting that vet isnt nearly as powerful after this patch.

55mp /20 fuel for target weak spot / stun hit / blitz and smoke combo , etc etc is a trade off i d take any day