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Rear Echelon very weak.

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Vipper
14 Apr 2020, 12:39 PM
#41
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jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2020, 12:27 PMGraephen

Because it synergyses with the supression ability, mate.


Giving a weapons to RE is not always a good strategy but their are some benefits:

1) It replace a weaker weapon
one Re + one Riflemen have 4 carbine + 5 m1.
Giving a BAR:
to Riflemen 4 carbines +4 M1 +1 BAR<to Re 3 carbines + 5 M1 + 1 bar

2) Re have an accuracy bonus at Vet 1

3) Force opponent to make a choice to either focus fire on Riflemen and be fired upon by bar or focus fire on RE and be fired upon by m1.

In sort one can gain an early advantage by it.
:)
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Serrith
14 Apr 2020, 14:57 PM
#42
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 14:34 PMRiley
...


Rear echelon are the most versatile engineering unit in the game.

Their mid-long range damage is similar to combat engineers yet far superior in close range.
Huge number of potential weapon upgrades(including doctrines), they can be kitted for anti tank, and anti infantry.
Doctrinal upgrades (rifle nades, 30cal lmg, flamethrower) give them all the more flexibility.
They can equip these weapons without giving up their minesweeper.
They can build cover and MG emplacements.
They have an(admittedly weak) suppression ability, though this will be stronger if you have them upgraded with weapons.
5 man vet improves squad repair rate, durability and damage output simultaneously without needing to purchase an upgrade or select a doctrine for it.

They MIGHT be slightly overpriced at 25 reinforce, but I couldn't see it being any less than 23.
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griezell
14 Apr 2020, 17:10 PM
#43
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 17:29 PMSumi
People talking about Volley fire, lmao do you guys even stream top rank matches? Volley fire is retarded you know why? because the moment you start the volley fire and till the time the unit gets suppressed not pinned you are already down to 2 models and then you can imagine the damage 2 RE models can cause. It is stupid to use against sturms or any other mainline infantry whilst attacking they are attacking RE directly. Hence it becomes a useless ability which works really slowly. So yes RE have to be the weakest starting unit since a Engineer Sov with flamethrower does more damage.

Scaling for RE is not that appreciative unless you spend another 60/120 ammunition or 50/100 on it. the 5th man increases its survivability. But asking for equipping it with BAR is retarded IMO since you guys are talking about arming the REs which does not solve the problem that they are weak without it.REs don't exist to be equipped with a BAR to perform, it needs to perform without it and improve upon equipping it.

in comparison: sturms are op, get to plant normal mines which attacks Infantry and tanks too. Can be upgraded with Schrek. Can 'keep away' its minesweeper to get all 4 models to attack and also has a stun grenade.

OSt engs can be upgraded with flamethrower, can make sandbags, have satchel lmao, can make 2 types of mines with AT mine being OP



just like the mg 42 supres almost as soon it hits should volly fire be as soon they open up fire and supress. make it so that they need a longer reload time after they empty them magazines so the other units can get out of supression. so its more a combined abillaty on 1 unit they supress
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Serrith
14 Apr 2020, 18:20 PM
#44
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jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2020, 17:10 PMgriezell



just like the mg 42 supres almost as soon it hits should volly fire be as soon they open up fire and supress. make it so that they need a longer reload time after they empty them magazines so the other units can get out of supression. so its more a combined abillaty on 1 unit they supress


They used to function like this, and what USF players(including myself) would do is focus on munitions, spam RE and completely lock down any enemy mobile infantry by suppressing them and having another squad to maintain the suppression nearby. Then if another squad popped up, you just use volley fire with the other RE.
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Stug life
14 Apr 2020, 18:33 PM
#45
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guys FFS it's reley he is a know usf fan boy troll whey even waste time , mod should just close this pointless thread, someone does not even know u can give weapons to RE and they cost only 200 mp

/close
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
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griezell
14 Apr 2020, 18:55 PM
#46
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jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2020, 18:20 PMSerrith


They used to function like this, and what USF players(including myself) would do is focus on munitions, spam RE and completely lock down any enemy mobile infantry by suppressing them and having another squad to maintain the suppression nearby. Then if another squad popped up, you just use volley fire with the other RE.


and the enemy can have an mg backing them up without the 20 or 30 ammo drain on volly fire. so..... what
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Serrith
14 Apr 2020, 19:22 PM
#47
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jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2020, 18:55 PMgriezell


and the enemy can have an mg backing them up without the 20 or 30 ammo drain on volly fire. so..... what



OKW needs to tech in order to get MGs which means you have several minutes before the enemy has any form of suppression. Ostheer gets MGs, but their infantry don't trade as cost effectively against REs as OKWs in the early game.

As for the 20-30 muni drain on volley fire, you only need to push back the enemy to get map control. Sacrificing 20 munitions to force a sturmpioneer to retreat in the early game is well worth it. The more map control you have, the more munitions to spam volley fire. The downside is you wont build up any CP, so if you are relying on callins then you wont get them.

But if you just wanted to stall until M15, or m20, or stuart, then this worked very well.
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T.R. Stormjäger
14 Apr 2020, 19:23 PM
#48
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jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2020, 18:55 PMgriezell


and the enemy can have an mg backing them up without the 20 or 30 ammo drain on volly fire. so..... what


The idea is you can send the squad with a BAR and a sweeper to edge cap. If the opponent sends a squad to contest you then you can pin it and complete the capping.
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LoopDloop
14 Apr 2020, 19:26 PM
#49
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jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2020, 19:23 PMT.R. Stormjäger


The idea is you can send the squad with a BAR and a sweeper to edge cap. If the opponent sends a squad to contest you then you can pin it and complete the capping.

Or just put zooks on it and actually have a pretty useful squad.
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Serrith
14 Apr 2020, 19:28 PM
#50
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jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2020, 19:23 PMT.R. Stormjäger


The idea is you can send the squad with a BAR and a sweeper to edge cap. If the opponent sends a squad to contest you then you can pin it and complete the capping.


Back when volley fire provided instant suppression, you didn't even need a BAR. It literally just put the enemy squad in suppression and you could just keep them that way because of how suppression works.

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2020, 19:26 PMLoopDloop

Or just put zooks on it and actually have a pretty useful squad.


This is addressing the idea of giving volley fire instant suppression on the targeted squad.

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T.R. Stormjäger
14 Apr 2020, 19:33 PM
#51
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jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2020, 19:26 PMLoopDloop

Or just put zooks on it and actually have a pretty useful squad.


BAR REs are super useful imo plus they vet up in 3-5 engagements. I'm not a fan of bazookas tbh. It's a preference thing but I find the extra frontline squad more useful.
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zerocoh
15 Apr 2020, 00:31 AM
#52
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 14:56 PMSp33dSnake


...Guy who complains about RE's not having powerful weaponry now complains about giving RE's powerful weaponry.


dude, you compared sturms to RET, you are crazy, I'm pretty sure sturms beat RETs in any range and sturms are excellent against 95% infantry on this game and now they even have very decent vet bonuses.

that being said RETs can't be stronger than they are now, they already do a lot (mines, defenses, can pick up 2 weapons, have 5 man vet and very good repair time).
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mrgame2
15 Apr 2020, 01:42 AM
#53
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jump backJump back to quoted post14 Apr 2020, 09:59 AMKieselberg


Can you imagine a world, where RE would mass spam tank traps. They can place wire as fast as other units; as for the Tank traps, this would be imo too much.


Sounds good!

Because Usf have weakest AT Gun, tank traps can help defer T3 tanks. I think only Panther can clear tank traps.

RE fail at engineer units because the structures are so SLOW!
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Sp33dSnake
15 Apr 2020, 01:53 AM
#54
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jump backJump back to quoted post15 Apr 2020, 00:31 AMzerocoh


dude, you compared sturms to RET, you are crazy, I'm pretty sure sturms beat RETs in any range and sturms are excellent against 95% infantry on this game and now they even have very decent vet bonuses.

that being said RETs can't be stronger than they are now, they already do a lot (mines, defenses, can pick up 2 weapons, have 5 man vet and very good repair time).


Sturms also have a price tag of 320 manpower. And they are good early game until vet up and then they start to taper off late game.
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Serrith
15 Apr 2020, 08:32 AM
#56
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jump backJump back to quoted post15 Apr 2020, 01:42 AMmrgame2


Sounds good!

Because Usf have weakest AT Gun, tank traps can help defer T3 tanks. I think only Panther can clear tank traps.

RE fail at engineer units because the structures are so SLOW!


USF do not have the weakest ATG.
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Kurobane
15 Apr 2020, 09:05 AM
#57
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jump backJump back to quoted post15 Apr 2020, 01:42 AMmrgame2


Sounds good!

Because Usf have weakest AT Gun, tank traps can help defer T3 tanks. I think only Panther can clear tank traps.

RE fail at engineer units because the structures are so SLOW!



Actually USF have the highest DPS AT Gun with Veterancy. Just use the ability....
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blancat
16 Apr 2020, 00:47 AM
#58
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they are bazooka guys with mine sweaper
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Porygon
16 Apr 2020, 09:31 AM
#59
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Apr 2020, 14:45 PMRiley


Sure. Do you really think me so stupid? But why should this be an obstacle. A lieutenant can also buy a bazooka without racks. But you can ignore this moment. I suggested only one of the options.


That guy had no life beside being on this forum and telling everyone here is stupid, all these years since 2013.
He played COH2 COH2.org by keyboard only.
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Loren
16 Apr 2020, 13:31 PM
#60
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I feel that volly fire is totally trash.
The penalty is so severe that it's almost a suicide ability.
abilities such as tactical advance have penalties, but this ability can be controlled to some extent during use.
But volly fire cannot do anything during use it.
I think it's a good idea to ease the penalty for this ability.
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