Rear Echelon very weak.

I would move crit repairs from tank crews onto them. They would become more useful this way. Anyway - they are not useful to some players only because they don't build base structures or don't really have to repair vehicles - just be happy as it is a huge buff to the whole faction. Just use them to sidecap and outcap your opponent early who needs to actually help vehicles and build stuff with their pios. Lategame people above suggested how to use them (2bazookas and a sweeper, plus the ability to speed up vehicle repairs is the best tank support in game).

The reinforce cost on them is nuts. Otherwise they are fine.

Double Support Weapons helps keep them relevant since they get no bonus to repair speed or flamethrower to work with. Volley Fire is a waste of an ability, but hardly the end of the world. I'd love to trade it out for some form of anti garrison ability though. Their mines also aren't great, but USF doesn't really have the munitions to spare for lots of mines anyway.

Echelons are natural zook carriers. Have smoke. They are quite good in cover short range. Not pioneers but still good. Sturmpies are OP close range. Echelons, due to their cheap price, are great squad for sneaky recapture. In 3v3 I use them (until I can equip them with zooks to ambush tanks with ranger zooks) to capture territory that is not guarded. Usually 66% of the map is guarded and fought over, so big open maps are great for such a cheap squad to capture territory. Also, great smoke ability to defend against MGs and paks.

People talking about Volley fire, lmao do you guys even stream top rank matches? Volley fire is retarded you know why? because the moment you start the volley fire and till the time the unit gets suppressed not pinned you are already down to 2 models and then you can imagine the damage 2 RE models can cause. It is stupid to use against sturms or any other mainline infantry whilst attacking they are attacking RE directly. Hence it becomes a useless ability which works really slowly. So yes RE have to be the weakest starting unit since a Engineer Sov with flamethrower does more damage.

Scaling for RE is not that appreciative unless you spend another 60/120 ammunition or 50/100 on it. the 5th man increases its survivability. But asking for equipping it with BAR is retarded IMO since you guys are talking about arming the REs which does not solve the problem that they are weak without it.REs don't exist to be equipped with a BAR to perform, it needs to perform without it and improve upon equipping it.

in comparison: sturms are op, get to plant normal mines which attacks Infantry and tanks too. Can be upgraded with Schrek. Can 'keep away' its minesweeper to get all 4 models to attack and also has a stun grenade.

OSt engs can be upgraded with flamethrower, can make sandbags, have satchel lmao, can make 2 types of mines with AT mine being OP

Rear echelons main issue is that their main engineer role (repairing) is made unnecessary by vehicle crews. Imo good way to change them could be make them more combat oriented infantry, pretty much conscripts for usf. They could kedp sweeper, but possibility to funcrion as weaker mainline is possibility.

Rear echelons main issue is that their main engineer role (repairing) is made unnecessary by vehicle crews. Imo good way to change them could be make them more combat oriented infantry, pretty much conscripts for usf. They could kedp sweeper, but possibility to funcrion as weaker mainline is possibility.

I'd argue that specifically because of vehicle crews, their main role never was repairing.

Relic probably intended them to use FPs more then they are now, but for that, unupgraded ones are too expensive and go down to small arms fire.

There could be pretty nice things done if FPs were 50mp and HMG upgrade covered remaining mp+muni cost.

They're supposed to be, they aren't meant to be anything other than a supplement. However, get some zooks, or a BAR or two on them and get them some vet and they are quite a decent unit. Still squishy, but they can at least do more than just be a support / repair unit.

My eyes bleed when I see this opener.

Noganno is a noob:

Noganno is a noob:

Depends on the game mode. It works for Noganno in 1v1 because of his micro and his ability to cap more of the map. In a 4v4, 4 RE's are not usually going to win a battle against 2 Grens and a MG42 over the fuel at the start of the game. However, any buffs to RE's would just bring back the Captain SPrice blobs, which would now have rifle nades and zooks.

Depends on the game mode. It works for Noganno in 1v1 because of his micro and his ability to cap more of the map. In a 4v4, 4 RE's are not usually going to win a battle against 2 Grens and a MG42 over the fuel at the start of the game. However, any buffs to RE's would just bring back the Captain SPrice blobs, which would now have rifle nades and zooks.

Exactly. I just found it funny that the pic remind me of that game.

As already mentioned; RE are supposed to be used defensivly. Build tank traps and barb wire with them; Later you can use them as a very cheap AT squad with double zookas on a 5 man squad on vet 3.

RE arent supposed to be mainline infantry of any sort; that role is filled by rifles fully.

No changes needed really.

RE is terrible as defensive unit. Because they take AGES to complete the structures.

RE sole purpose of note is to clear mines.
Probably the most pointless starting unit.

At least give them extra 25% construction time buffs.

They could use a increase sight range, even as an ability. They get completely neutered by same price/more utilities out of the box Pioneers.

Then remove the 5th men squad at vet3 which, if it is nice, has little utility in reality.

RE is terrible as defensive unit. Because they take AGES to complete the structures.

RE sole purpose of note is to clear mines.
Probably the most pointless starting unit.

At least give them extra 25% construction time buffs.

Can you imagine a world, where RE would mass spam tank traps. They can place wire as fast as other units; as for the Tank traps, this would be imo too much.

they're Bazookas boy

RE is terrible as defensive unit. Because they take AGES to complete the structures.

RE sole purpose of note is to clear mines.
Probably the most pointless starting unit.

At least give them extra 25% construction time buffs.

RE are the only unit that can build a tanktrap and put barbed wire on its opposite side in time necessary to cap a point. So you don't get delayed capping. You leave the capping circle having done these two things - the fastest of all engineers.

They are best supporting unit because they can equip two weapons of their choice and repair and sweep and are really cheap. They also have plenty of free time to do that as usf tanks have crews and their base structures get erected automatically.

IMO it is better to just use them to delay your opponent rather than expect them to charge. Also comparing them to stumpios makes little sense. Sturmpio is probably the worst designed unit in the whole game - better not to clone this idea. And btw sturms are more of a problem to okw as they are the most expensive engineering unit - lategame when they need to repair stuff (tanks/their basetrucks) sturms die like flies to arty and it is a big manpower drain.

Noganno is a noob:

He certainly made it work, but I think this game was really turned by that god tier stuart timing. Noganno set that up perfect with the retreat.

Why give a bar initially to a weaker unit, it is better to give it an Rifleman. I practically did not see that in rating games or in tournaments someone would give the echelon the bar, enough to give it to the Rifleman.

Because it synergyses with the supression ability, mate.