Brit buffs are definitely a start, but will not be enough

Hoo boy this is gonna be a fun thread.

Here's the reasons why the title statement is true:

Brits still have no indirect and therefore no counter to indirect despite having nothing but LMG troops and MGs. Section smoke is a great buff, but it won't counter MG spam and it won't counter indirect spam.

The vickers is still trash at actually suppressing things, but its vet1 garrison range bonus is frustrating BS. Its vet1 should be removed and replaced and veterancy at some point should give it better suppression. A a straight group suppression buff wouldn't hurt either to make it actually counter blobs instead of the other way around.

Brits still have no counter to falls, since vickers is not good at its job, brits have no anti infantry light vehicle, and their one rocket artillery piece (that they need a doctrine for) sucks for many many reasons.

The land mattress is not great. Sure, it's the cheapest, but it takes about 4 hours to actually start firing since it has an abysmal setup and teardown time and it always auto sets up on the first unit it sees. It's minimum range is also ridiculously long, its payload comes very slow (which is fine IMO) and has like 0 pen for some reason, and its obviously the slowest since its man-portable. It's also over 50mp per model to reinforce for some reason, and doubles the reinforce cost of models recrewing it. Given that it's so much cheaper than other rocket arties, most of that is fine, but it should at least be responsive when it's in position already. Remove the setup and teardown time, and/or remove the auto setup when it sees an enemy.

Limiting ALO to one doesn't make a lot of sense, and still keeps having commandos to be competitive without cheesing basically mandatory. There shouldn't be a lot of situations where you're building more than like 2, but having the flexibility in a faction with very inflexible mainline infantry would be useful.

Cromwell is still easily the worst medium.

Comet is still meh.

Churchill is a stupid unit. Should lose some armor and get a received damage buff like the KV-1 to make it actually counterable in smaller gamemodes seeing as axis don't have an abundance of high pen 60 range TDs like allies.

Comet is still meh..

Wtf am I reading?

Wtf am I reading?

Against infantry? It's nothing special. Its AT performance and durability are good though. Should have specified more.

Agree on infirect, mortar should be in T1 instead of Bofors which should be T2.

Disagree on Vickers, it’s broken OP because it doesn’t auppress and thus bleeds the shit out of enemy inf. You don’t need suppression as Brits, just camp in trenches and bleed them to death. Plus its range increase in trenches is still a tumour.

Falls get hard countered by AEC hugging them now that they don’t have a faust. AEC does surprisingly well from range 0-5.

Land Mattress is shite. Why tf does it cost fuel?

Officer should be limited to 1.

Cromwell will be one of the best mediums after patch.

Comet is amazing.

Churchill is good.

Overall I think the only change Brits needed was 15 fuel Bolster so they don’t suffer until they get 5man Tommies.

Against infantry? It's nothing special. Its AT performance and durability are good though. Should have specified more.

Dude it’s amazing vs infantry. Just get to range 0-10 and the main gun does work. I didn’t believe it but Kobal was lauding the Comet’s AI and when I tried to hug enemy squads with it I was shocked.

Agree on infirect, mortar should be in T1 instead of Bofors which should be T2.

Disagree on Vickers, it’s broken OP because it doesn’t auppress and thus bleeds the shit out of enemy inf. You don’t need suppression as Brits, just camp in trenches and bleed them to death. Plus its range increase in trenches is still a tumour.

Falls get hard countered by AEC hugging them now that they don’t have a faust. AEC does surprisingly well from range 0-5.

Land Mattress is shite. Why tf does it cost fuel?

Officer should be limited to 1.

Cromwell will be one of the best mediums after patch.

Comet is amazing.

Churchill is good.

Overall I think the only change Brits needed was 15 fuel Bolster so they don’t suffer until they get 5man Tommies.






Dude it’s amazing vs infantry. Just get to range 0-10 and the main gun does work. I didn’t believe it but Kobal was lauding the Comet’s AI and when I tried to hug enemy squads with it I was shocked.

+1 although T2 bofors would be even more useless than it is now (which IMO is fine).

Sure, it does good damage, but when it doesn't actually suppress things it constantly just gets countered by even lone infantry squads that just crawl up and grenade it. If it actually suppressed it would also deal far less damage, so kill two birds with one stone. If you read OP again, I also suggested removing the vet1 range bonus because that shit is stupid.

Yes AEC can kill infantry, doesn't mean it's actually good at it. Especially if they're just blobbing (so mostly in teamgames), this will not work. You just don't have the DPS with an AEC to force off enough squads, not to mention the fact that shoving a light vehicle directly into the front of the enemy's lines is a really great way to lose it immediately. For like a lone fall on a VP, this might work. Otherwise, no.

It costs fuel because it'd be super OP even in its shitty current state if it didn't cost fuel. Imagine the spam.

Because...?

I don't know about one of the best mediums, won't even beat out a P4 or T34 since the main gun is so terrible against infantry. Only saving grace it has is the smoke shell.

Yes, churchill is good. Read OP, I suggested nerfing it. IMO it's too hard to actually freakin damage without 5 billion panthers or a heavy.

15 fuel bolster would probably be really OP. Imagine trying to fight 5 man tommies 1 minute into the game (so like 2nd engagement) with grens or vet0 volks. Wouldn't happen my guy. OKW would literally have no counter to a 4 section start with bolster put in there somewhere. They can barely counter it right now.

I don't know in what world you're paying that you can just shove a lategame tank into 0-10 range of enemy squads. Have fun with a broken engine comet trying to run away from panthers

OKW would literally have no counter to a 4 section start with bolster put in there somewhere. They can barely counter it right now.

But that’s my point, 3 sections into bolster into 4th section into T1 is a terribly rough early game where you have to survive until the AEC, RE and sniper come out. No idea why you think OKW struggles against it, in fact I find it most difficult to pull off vs okw who just blob into my cutoff early.

I think cheaper bolster with the fuel cost added to T2 would work well since it would allow the faction to be balanced around 5man sections instead of considering both 4man and 5man squads.

But that’s my point, 3 sections into bolster into 4th section into T1 is a terribly rough early game where you have to survive until the AEC, RE and sniper come out. No idea why you think OKW struggles against it, in fact I find it most difficult to pull off vs okw who just blob into my cutoff early.

I think cheaper bolster with the fuel cost added to T2 would work well since it would allow the faction to be balanced around 5man sections instead of considering both 4man and 5man squads.

Currently bolster is 35 fuel and you ukf stat the game with 25 fuel, so if bolster is the fist thing you get, you only have to gain 10 fuel. I can do 1 vicker in to bolster into 2 section in some certain 2v2, normally will be vicker, section and bolster into 3rd section.

Vs okw, both vicker and Tommy opening are risky at my skill lv (low to med).

Vickers is good at vet 3 and can suppress

Issue is MG crew often die or need rebuilding, then once your vickers is back to vet0 falls and vet 2 obers can quite literally walk up and laser bream it dead frontally. Maybe give it good suppression stock and only DPS buffs to its previous level through vet. Simple swap

Churchill issues are linked with greater Brit popcap issue late game, expensive IS pop when five man and already inflated Churchill and firefly pop on top makes their army size smaller than soviets or USF.

Look at the bang soviets get for their popcap with three penals, shocktroop, KV1 and SU85 compared to the mediocre line up of four IS, FF and Churchill. This could be fixed by reworking bolster and IS, putting them inline with rifleman pop. Or dropping FF church combo by a couple pop.

Ukf have an arguably strong opening with a mainline squad as stater and T0 Mg, as well as Uc. But those advantages fall apart quickly since OKW event have a stronger opening and ost can easily close the gap with early indirect and lv.

Into mid game, as op already point out, ukf get hard counter by indirect and mg spam. The AEC dont have enough sock value, AI to ve exact, to secure any advantage you can gain early game, or carry you through if you fall behind with a bad ealy.

Ukf have an arguably strong opening with a mainline squad as stater and T0 Mg, as well as Uc. But those advantages fall apart quickly since OKW event have a stronger opening and ost can easily close the gap with early indirect and lv.

Into mid game, as op already point out, ukf get hard counter by indirect and mg spam. The AEC dont have enough sock value, AI to ve exact, to secure any advantage you can gain early game, or carry you through if you fall behind with a bad ealy.

In terms of 1v1 I find the early game to be the biggest challenge. Mid game with the AEC and a sniper is quite manageable, the sniper buff has been huge.

Vickers is good at vet 3 and can suppress

Issue is MG crew often die or need rebuilding, then once your vickers is back to vet0 falls and vet 2 obers can quite literally walk up and laser bream it dead frontally. Maybe give it good suppression stock and only DPS buffs to its previous level through vet. Simple swap

Churchill issues are linked with greater Brit popcap issue late game, expensive IS pop when five man and already inflated Churchill and firefly pop on top makes their army size smaller than soviets or USF.

Look at the bang soviets get for their popcap with three penals, shocktroop, KV1 and SU85 compared to the mediocre line up of four IS, FF and Churchill. This could be fixed by reworking bolster and IS, putting them inline with rifleman pop. Or dropping FF church combo by a couple pop.

Neither Churchill nor FF has an inflated POP.

Neither Churchill nor FF has an inflated POP.

Then why can soviets field a KV1 and SU85 for so much cheaper?

In terms of 1v1 I find the early game to be the biggest challenge. Mid game with the AEC and a sniper is quite manageable, the sniper buff has been huge.

Same with me, screwing up the early game often cost me the game, but i play more 2v2 and 4v4 so at least i have teammates to count on. I'm not very good with sinper so mid game is still a struggle, but if i can make it until a cromwell then i can do fairly well from there.

So far, the bofor is as good as dead and i already have an opinion on the AEC, so my all along wish is the valentine to replace bofor. An AI light vehicle to brige me in to medium tank phase.

Then why can soviets field a KV1 and SU85 for so much cheaper?

Because both KV-1 and SU-85 have less pop than they should do and it should be increased.

But that’s my point, 3 sections into bolster into 4th section into T1 is a terribly rough early game where you have to survive until the AEC, RE and sniper come out. No idea why you think OKW struggles against it, in fact I find it most difficult to pull off vs okw who just blob into my cutoff early.

I think cheaper bolster with the fuel cost added to T2 would work well since it would allow the faction to be balanced around 5man sections instead of considering both 4man and 5man squads.

Unless you have a terrible first engagement, brit early game vs okw is really really easy. 2 sections or a vickers and a section will dumpster a volk and a sturm any day and from there you have more field control and more DPS with your sections than his volks can ever hope to match. Unless you get caught out in the open, you shouldn't be losing with sections against unupgraded volks. Like, besides hiding sturms behind a shotblocker or usinga building or something, I'm not really sure how one would lose to OKW early game. There's also the for some reason virtually bulletproof UC.

Making bolster 15 fuel would effectively just be making sections de facto a 5 man squad (and also just more OP version of riflemen). At that point, might as well remove bolster and make them 5 man stock, but again, don't see any reason for it.

I agree with your sentiments on midgame but I find it super easy to snowball into in 1s honestly. Brit early game is not the problem.

The land mattress definitely needs at least some buff without touching rocket damage/AoE or rate of fire imo.

Lower reinforce cost....lower CP requirement... or much better (de-)setup time... not being able to get two-shotted by tanks and AT guns even if its crewed

etc

The land mattress definitely needs at least some buff without touching rocket damage/AoE or rate of fire imo.

Lower reinforce cost....lower CP requirement... or much better (de-)setup time... not being able to get two-shotted by tanks and AT guns even if its crewed

etc

I just wish it was more responsive. Getting rid of the setup and teardown time would be great.

Reinforce cost decrease would nice too.

While i understand the feel and some points of the OP, i dont agree with all of them. Or at least with the intent.
My premise is "Not all problems are solved the same way" and each faction reflects some of that.

Brits still have no indirect and therefore no counter to indirect despite having nothing but LMG troops and MGs. Section smoke is a great buff, but it won't counter MG spam and it won't counter indirect spam.

Mortar pit exists, it has the counter barrage, even when it is trash or is not used for that prupose.
A buff/revamp that make mortar pits counter barrage on default and cant auto-attack (but can perform barrages) with a durability buff could really solve this issue. Mortars are poorly used to bleed because they cant be compared to mobile mortars for that prupose.

The vickers is still trash at actually suppressing things, but its vet1 garrison range bonus is frustrating BS. Its vet1 should be removed and replaced and veterancy at some point should give it better suppression. A a straight group suppression buff wouldn't hurt either to make it actually counter blobs instead of the other way around.

I agree here with OP. Suppression is really a must for lategame and throughout the whole game for some map control. I would really like to enable some "fire at will" mode (either toggle or timed) that made the vickers shots had more suppression but really do little to no damage. This change is rather big and could require some fine tuning after implemented.

Brits still have no counter to falls, since vickers is not good at its job, brits have no anti infantry light vehicle, and their one rocket artillery piece (that they need a doctrine for) sucks for many many reasons.

To me, this is a clear example of a very vague and also very specific complaint. Falls are not only countered (if any) by vickers. Now that they lost the pfaust, they will be countered by any armor, some might take more time than others. The new cromwell should make short work of them because their new AI depends on the hull HMGs wich are more reliable than the main gun.

The land mattress is not great. Sure, it's the cheapest, but it takes about 4 hours to actually start firing since it has an abysmal setup and teardown time and it always auto sets up on the first unit it sees. It's minimum range is also ridiculously long, its payload comes very slow (which is fine IMO) and has like 0 pen for some reason, and its obviously the slowest since its man-portable. It's also over 50mp per model to reinforce for some reason, and doubles the reinforce cost of models recrewing it. Given that it's so much cheaper than other rocket arties, most of that is fine, but it should at least be responsive when it's in position already. Remove the setup and teardown time, and/or remove the auto setup when it sees an enemy.

I agree with the little to no versatility of the LM, but i really think that some of it, its intended. It could be discussed if it reliably fullfills its job, denying map to Axis troops. It has the widest spread of all rocket arty and that is sort of good if you want to scare a small team weapon with less than 4 man.

Limiting ALO to one doesn't make a lot of sense, and still keeps having commandos to be competitive without cheesing basically mandatory. There shouldn't be a lot of situations where you're building more than like 2, but having the flexibility in a faction with very inflexible mainline infantry would be useful.

To me its because the ALO was a big change to the UKF faction itself, a unit limit would allow a very precise study of its impact. It makes sense if its intended for defensive pruposes. It also means it can keep some 'uhmph' because you only get 1.

Cromwell is still easily the worst medium.

Not agreed at all. My experience tells me that is sub-par Pz4. Lots of patches have addressed mediums vs mediums and now its not that useless.
Saying "its the worst mediums" is like saying nothing, unless it is specified, i could say "The FF is the worst TD" (killing infantry)

Comet is still meh.

Same thing as cromwell's point.
Meh performance is because there are multiple factors maybe we are not considering. Unless we consider all those factors it will still be 'meh'

Churchill is a stupid unit. Should lose some armor and get a received damage buff like the KV-1 to make it actually counterable in smaller gamemodes seeing as axis don't have an abundance of high pen 60 range TDs like allies.

I really start to think you miss comets and dont like churchills. The game balance and metagame always forces players decision-making and thats fine. It is not stupid because it fitted the UKF current meta better.
DMG reduction is not a good suggestion IMO since RE are fantastic repairers with the heavy engie upgrade.

The land mattress definitely needs at least some buff without touching rocket damage/AoE or rate of fire imo.

Lower reinforce cost....lower CP requirement... or much better (de-)setup time... not being able to get two-shotted by tanks and AT guns even if its crewed

etc

+1

It's offensive power is plenty good, it's just a little too easy to kill imo. I know most other rocket arty dies in 1 shot but at least they can reposition quickly. Calliope can take damage and reposition quickly

The land mattress definitely needs at least some buff without touching rocket damage/AoE or rate of fire imo.

Lower reinforce cost....lower CP requirement... or much better (de-)setup time... not being able to get two-shotted by tanks and AT guns even if its crewed

etc

also, make it alvaiable in more commander will be nicer.