ISU-152 HE shell range should be reduced?
22 Mar 2020, 17:04 PM
#22
Posts: 4183 | Subs: 4
I find it odd that the doctrine that has probably a 70% pick rate in 3v3+ has people saying it's completely fine for either side. If the doctrine is causing issues, nerf it.
22 Mar 2020, 17:18 PM
#23
Posts: 808
the isu152 being countered isnt the problem (this is hard to do btw as axis dont have cheap 60 range, high pen TDs), its the HE shells that can 1-2 hit and delete squads at ridiculous ranges, at times making it impossible to react to
22 Mar 2020, 17:51 PM
#24
Posts: 978
Note that the players being against reverting the Brumm range to normal are vividly defending the ISU wiping across the map.
22 Mar 2020, 17:55 PM
#25
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Note that the players being against reverting the Brumm range to normal are vividly defending the ISU wiping across the map.
Note that brummbar is stock unit and a very cheap compared to ISU, making it incomparably more accessible, oh and its also not limited to 1.
Brummbar also has almost no scatter at all, while even KV-2 is more accurate in both modes then ISU.
You are surprised why people are against range increased to pinpoint accurate unit, but don't want nerfs to a unit that hits you once a minute if its lucky?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
22 Mar 2020, 17:56 PM
#26
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Hilarious how 4 digit players can apparently easily dodge T34 rams while high level players can't.
Lol when you run out of things to say, just call the people you disagree with noobs...
What units are you even talking about high level players struggling to dodge rams? Cause the 70 range elefant getting rammed is very different than a Tiger or Panther... And how many pros do you see in team games where these doctrines are actually used...?
22 Mar 2020, 18:05 PM
#27
Posts: 960
Voted yes.
Realistically I'd like to see an "ammo swap" ability like the Sherman 75 added, where it can switch between a low-AoE 'AP' round (current stats, minus AoE) and a 'HE' round, with less pen and range, but the current AoE values.
As for why; tanks shouldn't be able to hard-counter ATGs head-on. This is a pretty universal standard, and it's been addressed (although sometimes slowly) in every other situation - so there's no reason the ISU-152 should be exception.
If the changes make it under-perform, the price can always be adjusted.
/edit
I Wasn't paying attention; the ISU-152 already has this. Just nerf the HE-range.
As for why; tanks shouldn't be able to hard-counter ATGs head-on. This is a pretty universal standard, and it's been addressed (although sometimes slowly) in every other situation - so there's no reason the ISU-152 should be exception.
If the changes make it under-perform, the price can always be adjusted.
/edit
I Wasn't paying attention; the ISU-152 already has this. Just nerf the HE-range.
Opinions reflect all team modes (not 1v1)
I often edit my posts several times after posting
I often edit my posts several times after posting
22 Mar 2020, 18:07 PM
#28
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Realistically I'd like to see an "ammo swap" ability like the Sherman 75 added, where it can switch between a low-AoE 'AP' round (current stats, minus AoE) and a 'HE' round, with less pen and range, but the current AoE values.
It already has an ammo swap? You mean you just wanna change the shells? AP rounds already have practically no AOE
22 Mar 2020, 18:11 PM
#29
Posts: 960
It already has an ammo swap? You mean you just wanna change the shells? AP rounds already have practically no AOE
Wow, I have no idea what unit I was mixing the 152 up with.
Anyway, yea, just nerf the HE shells range down to 45-50, that would pretty much fix it instantly.
Opinions reflect all team modes (not 1v1)
I often edit my posts several times after posting
I often edit my posts several times after posting
22 Mar 2020, 18:17 PM
#30
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Anyway, yea, just nerf the HE shells range down to 45-50, that would pretty much fix it instantly.
Nerfing range by 20-25 seems pretty steep for a unit that a lot of people think dont even think needs changes
If you told me I had to nerf something I'd spread the AOE out more, so its got a smaller kill radius. But I really think its fine. Range I definitely would not touch
22 Mar 2020, 18:20 PM
#31
Posts: 1096
I'd be happy with them making the ISU152 a dedicated AT unit and buffing/altering towards that.
Also, pathing seems REALLY bad for it. Anyone else find that?
Also, pathing seems REALLY bad for it. Anyone else find that?
22 Mar 2020, 18:22 PM
#32
Posts: 960
Nerfing range by 20-25 seems pretty steep for a unit that a lot of people think dont even think needs changes
Anything less would be inconsistent. Every vehicle with the ability to counter ATGs head-on has been nerfed fairly severely: Tiger, KT, Brummbar, Scott (sort of, with the scatter changes), Pershing, etc.
Even in the current balance preview patch, the OKW Tiger lost its "Panzer Commander" upgrade for this exact reason.
Leaving the ISU-152 as the sole exception, while also having it perform much, much better than any of the previously nerfed units doesn't make sense.
Opinions reflect all team modes (not 1v1)
I often edit my posts several times after posting
I often edit my posts several times after posting
22 Mar 2020, 18:24 PM
#35
Posts: 2458 | Subs: 1
Lol when you run out of things to say, just call the people you disagree with noobs...
And how many pros do you see in team games where these doctrines are actually used...?
Come on man. ISU is used in a huge number of high level 2v2s. Are you trying to tell us that ISU isn't used now?
I didn't run out of things to say. It's just very amusing to me how people on coh2.org can easily dodge rams while the best players in the ladder can't.
22 Mar 2020, 18:28 PM
#36
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Come on man. ISU is used in a huge number of high level 2v2s. Are you trying to tell us that ISU isn't used now?
Is 2v2 a team game? Did I just say its used in team games? Of course its used, so is the elefant which does very well against it. Jaeger armor has been one of the most common team game commanders since launch
I didn't run out of things to say. It's just very amusing to me how people on coh2.org can easily dodge rams while the best players in the ladder can't.
Do you have a specific example you're referring too? Cause I don't see any of these high level players saying anything about the t34 ram, elefant, or ISU one way or another
22 Mar 2020, 18:33 PM
#37
Posts: 1217
Going double Brummbär will lose you any competitive game. Just accept his point that you are applying double standards. and 40 range on a Brummbär would still be 30 range lower than on the ISU. It's just that an Ost unit isn't supposed to wipe AT guns while the Soviet is... which is bullocks.
Note that brummbar is stock unit and a very cheap compared to ISU, making it incomparably more accessible, oh and its also not limited to 1.
Brummbar also has almost no scatter at all, while even KV-2 is more accurate in both modes then ISU.
You are surprised why people are against range increased to pinpoint accurate unit, but don't want nerfs to a unit that hits you once a minute if its lucky?
Imo the ISU152 should keep its 70 range since that is its flavour. The only minor problem I have with it is that it can maneuver out of dangerous situations while Elefant and JT can't.
22 Mar 2020, 18:35 PM
#38
Posts: 3423 | Subs: 1
Leaving the ISU-152 as the sole exception, while also having it perform much, much better than any of the previously nerfed units doesn't make sense.
Hang on the ISU does not at all perform better than the live Tiger. I know Tiger is getting spanked by the nerf hammer very soon, but saying ISU is better than all the ones you listed doesn't seem accurate to me
ISU has also recieved plenty of nerfs in its lifespan? The round switching takes 14 seconds, its reload is 9-11 seconds. How many of the units you just listed have that much time where they aren't firing? The scott fires every 3.5 seconds lol
22 Mar 2020, 18:45 PM
#39
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Going double Brummbär will lose you any competitive game.
What do you mean by competitive game?
1v1? Because ISU doesn't exist there either.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
22 Mar 2020, 18:53 PM
#40
Posts: 5279
Hilarious how 4 digit players can apparently easily dodge T34 rams while high level players can't.
And it's never a "omg how the hell did that happen!" it's another high tier player out playing the first. It only takes 1 hit and a snare to remove the possibility for a ram and if there is nothing there to make that happen it's on the rammed player no matter their skill. People know it's a counter to these units, not taking precautions is entirely on you.
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