Super Heavy tank requirements in Winter balance preview

OKW

JagdTiger CP 14, Schewerer Panzer, "Panzer Authorization", cost 720/245
King Tiger having build the 3 different trucks, cost 720/270
Tiger CP 12, Schewerer Panzer headquarters, "Panzer Authorization", cost 640/230
Command Panther CP 9, Schewerer Panzer headquarters "Panzer Authorization", cost 520/200
SturmTiger CP 8, Schewerer Panzer headquarters "Panzer Authorization", cost 570/160

Ostheer
Elephant CP 14, Heavy Panzer Corps, cost 720/245
Tiger ACE CP 12, Heavy Panzer Corps, cost 800/250
Tiger CP 12, Battle Phase 3, cost 640/230

USF
Pershing CP 12, Battalion command Post, cost 640/230

UKF
AVRE CP 9, Specialization Anvil or Hammer, cost 560/160
Crocodile CP 12 Specialization Anvil or Hammer, cost 640/230

Soviet
ISU-152 CP 14 all 4 structures, cost 680/260
KV-2 CP 12 Mechanized Armor Kampaneya, cost 630/230
IS-2 CP 12 Mechanized Armor Kampaneya, cost 640/230

Check numbers and explain what are you summing up

The exact fuel costs to rush a heavy are much less relevant with the raised CP requirements as the CPs are now the limiting factor.

Check numbers and explain what are you summing up

The number seem fine so far (although I am using cheat command II to get the numbers). I make comments after verify some things

The exact fuel costs to rush a heavy are much less relevant with the raised CP requirements as the CPs are now the limiting factor.

Maybe my post was unclear the number are the cost of vehicle not total cost.

The number seem fine so far (although I am using cheat command II to get the numbers). I make comments after verify some things

570/615

570/615

Thanks for the correction

ISU-152 requiring all structures is in my opinion unnecessary. The unit might need re-balance but adding an extra building does not help.

AVRE at CP 9 is probably too early and it could probably be move to 10

Croc at CP 12 is probably too late since it inferior to other super heavies and could be move to 11. In 1vs1 game the fuel tech cost is probably to high so the earlier CP will not make a difference. One could even consider reducing the fuel price a bit (20-10).

Tiger ACE has more expensive tech and costs more it might need a MP reduction.

Sturm Tiger could be move to CP9.

Imo the requirement of having a Schewerer Panzer headquarters with Panzer Authorization on map to have access to the doctrinal units is should be fixed. This is problem especially in 3vs3 and 4vs4 where the CP gain in longer and the shire volume of artillery can delete OKW easily.

If one is not willing to remove the restriction at least make the requirement of Panzer Authorization a one time requirement so that if one loses the Schewerer Panzer can replace it without having to unlock the Panzer Authorization again.

Imo the requirement of having a Schewerer Panzer headquarters with Panzer Authorization on map to have access to the doctrinal units is should be fixed. This is problem especially in 3vs3 and 4vs4 where the CP gain in longer and the shire volume of artillery can delete OKW easily.

If one is not willing to remove the restriction at least make the requirement of Panzer Authorization a one time requirement so that if one loses the Schewerer Panzer can replace it without having to unlock the Panzer Authorization again.

Before Panzer Authorization was introduced you had to pay the full price (120 fuel) to replace the Schewerer Panzer headquarters. It would be a massive buff, as you would regain access to medium tanks much easier.
The Panzer Authorization system was only introduced to make obers more accessible... (and tbh, I don't see it being used much, obers without their lmgs just doesn't worth it. /offtopic)

So Perhsing is potentially the most expensive tank to get while also being the weakest at of all: You have to add at last an ambulance and Rack before getting it in real games.

USF and Soviet mid game momentum are also completely dependent on their light vehicle which is not true for other factions that can go without them. that 50 fuel for USF and 70 for Soviet if they want to get the upper hand for some time before their windows close up.

No wonder you barely seen Pershing in 2vs2 while Tigers are there every single game.

Before Panzer Authorization was introduced you had to pay the full price (120 fuel) to replace the Schewerer Panzer headquarters. It would be a massive buff, as you would regain access to medium tanks much easier.
The Panzer Authorization system was only introduced to make obers more accessible... (and tbh, I don't see it being used much, obers without their lmgs just doesn't worth it. /offtopic)

The suggestions in this thread is about doctrinal units not JP/Panzer IV/Panther.

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No wonder you barely seen Pershing in 2vs2 while Tigers are there every single game.

These number are from winter balance preview. How many 2vs2 winter balance games have you seen?

These number are from winter balance preview. How many 2vs2 winter balance games have you seen?

Few but every time with tiger and almost none with Pershing. And the situation already exists live.

Few but every time with tiger and almost none with Pershing. And the situation already exists live.

You cannot compare the live with the mode. Tiger had a number of nerfs.

In addition Heavy cavalry is one of the most picked commander in 1vs1. It does not seem to need any buffs.

You cannot compare the live with the mode. Tiger had a number of nerfs.

In addition Heavy cavalry is one of the most picked commander in 1vs1. It does not seem to need any buffs.

Didn't say it need buff, I said we'll see the Pershing being the most expensive of all heavy tank because the singular cost to get it doesn't reflect that in reality you must invest more fuel and manpower into your tech and USF peak is almost entirely depending on getting at least one light vehicle.
IS2 is also impacted in fact if the player decides to go conscript. In reality you'll need to unlock Cons upgrades and get a T70 to benefice from your momentum.

Didn't say it need buff, I said we'll see the Pershing being the most expensive of all heavy tank because the singular cost to get it doesn't reflect that in reality you must invest more fuel and manpower into your tech and USF peak is almost entirely depending on getting at least one light vehicle.
IS2 is also impacted in fact if the player decides to go conscript. In reality you'll need to unlock Cons upgrades and get a T70 to benefice from your momentum.

If you want to talk about balance there plenty of other thread about Super heavies.

This thread is about their requirements and going into balance is actually off topic. Thanks you.

Sturmtiger has no business being earlier than AVRE, especially as it got a nice buffs in the preview.

Same role so should get the same command point cost

Croc should be the same effectiveness and balance of other heavy tanks. Just because it's stronger against AT guns and weaker vs armor doesn't mean it doesn't have the same shock factor. Croc like other heavies can wipe you off the feild if you only have AT guns and a med tank.

If you want to talk about balance there plenty of other thread about Super heavies.

This thread is about their requirements and going into balance is actually off topic. Thanks you.

Thanks to say I'm right

Didn't say it need buff, I said we'll see the Pershing being the most expensive of all heavy tank because the singular cost to get it doesn't reflect that in reality you must invest more fuel and manpower into your tech and USF peak is almost entirely depending on getting at least one light vehicle.
IS2 is also impacted in fact if the player decides to go conscript. In reality you'll need to unlock Cons upgrades and get a T70 to benefice from your momentum.

And that is fully correct, you're completely right. There's a lot of more to CoH2 than the snapshot represented here. The whole game cannot just be blindly balanced based on Excell sheets where data are just nitpicked out of the game and manipulated such that one side looks better than the other. It is really misleading otherwise and provides endless falsified claims. It would be a much better approach to look at timing and average expenditures than summing up.

If you want to talk about balance there plenty of other thread about Super heavies.

This thread is about their requirements and going into balance is actually off topic. Thanks you.

it's better to centralize threads, rather than having 20+ threads about one patch.