USF doesn't need any more buffs this patch.

Can someone please explain why the USF officer rifle buffs were INTENDED? Because somehow the rifle buff wasn't enough???? And now they're sneaking in a grenade tech cost reduction, hoping everyone just "overlooks" another undeserved buff for USF. I've lost count about how many idiots on this forum claim that allies have to pay for their upgrade teching while axis get it for free when it has always been the case that allied tech + upgrade tech is roughly equal to axis teching costs. Allies have the luxury of choice on whether they think they can skip one of these upgrades while Axis don't. These particular forum members are somehow trying to argue that allied teching is more expensive than axis teching? Anyways, it's beyond me why USF needs any buffs after the tournament shows that they aren't far behind the OP Soviets in regards to winrates.

On a side note, the changes to Ost this upcoming patch will do little to help the lategame. According to the balance team, "Sentiment says T4 is inaccessible for 1v1 and sometimes 2v2." Totally wrong. I'm sure everyone can agree than the sentiment is that T4 isn't worth getting at all even at current costs because the units are overrated.

Riflemen need a buff, they cannot compete with Grenadiers and Ostruppen.

Likewise, the Jackson is in urgent need of buffs because it's unable to deal with Axis armor.

USF struggles against MG spam, so a buff to the Pak howie is mandatory. It's not consistent enough at wiping units. Alternatively, Scotts need a durability buff that makes them harder to kill.

Finally, we have the Caliope which is a worse Panzerwerfer, but unlike the Werfer cannot get instant wipes before the enemy can even hit the retreat button.

#MakeUSFGreatAgain.

USF only had the highest win rate in the 1v1 tournament but they are really struggling right now Kappa

USF only had the highest win rate in the 1v1 tournament but they are really struggling right now Kappa

And how is that even possible if they had the highest winrate in the tournament? Riflemen can now afford to charge volks behind sandbags from almost max range and now they're "struggling????" And somehow USF deserved officer buffs and grenade tech cost reduction too????

And how is that even possible if they had the highest winrate in the tournament? Riflemen can now afford to charge volks behind sandbags from almost max range and now they're "struggling????" And somehow USF deserved officer buffs and grenade tech cost reduction too????

FYI, the Kappa twitch emote denotes sarcasm.

Also, probably not a good idea to insult other users.

Anyway, what officer rifle buffs are you referring to?

Anyway, what officer rifle buffs are you referring to?

When riflemen got buffed (min range from 3 to 6) so did the officers since they all use the same weapon

USF
Riflemen

Riflemen are solid infantry that scale well, but we would like to put more emphasis on their mid-to-short range capabilities versus those of the long-range focused Axis squads. Their near range has been increased to slightly improve their performance between 3 - 16m.

M1 Garand Near range from 3 to 6; affects USF Officer squad members

Ah, the way he worded it made me think he was referring to some new, officer specific buff.

Not sure why he would bring it up now then, and why a 50 manpower reduction to an unlock that is upgraded maybe less than 1 in 10 USF games (and only really after 20 minutes) is worthy of its own thread. Most of the content of the post doesn't really fall in line with the title too.

Well you're getting what you want because USF isn't really getting any buffs this patch. I'd hardly call the almost unnoticeable change to a lame side tech a buff.

Ah, the way he worded it made me think he was referring to some new, officer specific buff.

Not sure why he would bring it up now then, and why a 50 manpower reduction to an unlock that is upgraded maybe less than 1 in 10 USF games (and only really after 20 minutes) is worthy of its own thread. Most of the content of the post doesn't really fall in line with the title too.

I don't know 50 manpower pretty gamebreaking man. Like the massive +10 mp build cost nerf to sturms. Hoo boy kappa

I don't know 50 manpower pretty gamebreaking man. Like the massive +10 mp build cost nerf to sturms. Hoo boy kappa

I don't disagree, but I think it's important to underline the timing difference. A +10 to cost on your first unit is at least something around ~2% of your total manpower pool for your first volks. The 20 manpower that was also taken off means that the 30 manpower took away ~5% from their minute 0 economy.

A 50 manpower discount on grenades saves you... nothing because no one techs grenades anyway. Speaking more seriously, ~80-90% of the time the buff will do literally nothing. In the times where it does make a difference, it'll save you less than 1% of the manpower you already accrued.

The numbers oversimplify things, but the idea I want to underline is that each point of manpower matters more the earlier you are into a game.

I've lost count about how many idiots on this forum claim that allies have to pay for their upgrade teching while axis get it for free when it has always been the case that allied tech + upgrade tech is roughly equal to axis teching costs. Allies have the luxury of choice on whether they think they can skip one of these upgrades while Axis don't.

Most people bring it up when directly comparing squads in which case it absolutely matters. Far fewer people suggest that it makes teching take longer, and it's hardly worth making a thread about

It's about direct squad to squad comparisons, like volks vs Riflemen. Not the time it takes to tech up

The new grenade tech cost of USF is now inline with UKF at 100mp and 10fu. I dont see any game breaking in 50 mp.

What changes officers even got?

Riflemen can now afford to charge volks behind sandbags from almost max range

Stumpio was able to charge infantry sections behind sandbags from max range and win for years by now. When i asked about it, I was told that stum is 30mp more expensive and is a mid to close unit so charging in and win again sections, which is long range unit, is ok. I suggest you apply the same logic for volk vs rifle match up.

Stumpio was able to charge infantry sections behind sandbags from max range and win for years by now. When i asked about it, I was told that stum is 30mp more expensive and is a mid to close unit so charging in and win again sections, which is long range unit, is ok. I suggest you apply the same logic for volk vs rifle match up.

By years you mean literally just the last patch. Technically Dec 2019 to Feb 2020, okay, but you're really clutching at straws when it comes to "years" here.

Applying "the same logic" would be incredibly stupid since they're literally not the same situation. Volks vs Rifles is a mainline vs mainline situation and not a mainline vs single CQC specialist situation. Volks vs Rifles is a fair fight at long range, whereas everyone, even Combat Engineers and Rear Echelons, will dominate Sturms in a long range engagement.

There's literally nothing similar about those two situations.

An actual comparison to Sturms vs Tommies would be Ass Grens vs Rifles. Given that CQC squads are meant to win engagements at the expense of bleeding more, we can see the problem with rifles here. Rifles do too much close range dps to Ass Grens as they close in, and hence the CQC squad (Ass Grens) can't win in any situation unless one player totally outplays the other or uses muni to overcome this disadvantage.

In any case, since you have never played COH2 at any competent level, CQC units always beat their regular or elite counterparts when charging in. Shocks and Thompson Rangers can charge in vs LMG Obers and win. Doesn't mean LMG Obers are bad. In fact Shocks can easily charge 2 squads of unupgraded grenadiers or Volks from max range and stomp them with minimal losses. Pioneers charging in also beat Combat Engineers.

What's the difference? Riflemen aren't a designated CQC squad. They have decent long range dps and good mid range dps.

The complaints about Fallschrimjaegers being too good at all ranges is the one most similar to the complaint we have about Riflemen. Right now there's no range at which a Volks squad can come out ahead vs Riflemen, forcing OKW to rely on good mg34 play, Luchs, or Falls abuse to keep him competitive in the mid game.

An actual comparison to Sturms vs Tommies would be Ass Grens vs Rifles. Given that CQC squads are meant to win engagements at the expense of bleeding more, we can see the problem with rifles here. Rifles do too much close range dps to Ass Grens as they close in, and hence the CQC squad (Ass Grens) can't win in any situation unless one player totally outplays the other or uses muni to overcome this disadvantage.

Then its a good thing they have sprint? Most CQC squads don't have that

Right now there's no range at which a Volks squad can come out ahead vs Riflemen, forcing OKW to rely on good mg34 play, Luchs, or Falls abuse to keep him competitive in the mid game.

Then its a good thing they get their MG no matter what tech they choose... There's a reason they have more units to play with in their HQ

By years you mean literally just the last patch. Technically Dec 2019 to Feb 2020, okay, but you're really clutching at straws when it comes to "years" here.

Dec 2019 patch get rid of the potential model bust from 16 dmg rifle of sections and heavily neft their out of cover performance. But event before that, with the rng model bust, stum still charge and beat sections in cover with 3 models. The issue happened for years, dec 2019 patch just make it worse.

Applying "the same logic" would be incredibly stupid since they're literally not the same situation. Volks vs Rifles is a mainline vs mainline situation and not a mainline vs single CQC specialist situation. Volks vs Rifles is a fair fight at long range, whereas everyone, even Combat Engineers and Rear Echelons, will dominate Sturms in a long range engagement.

There's literally nothing similar about those two situations.

Stumpio is not CQC specialist, they are "mid to close oriented unit which happen have good close dps", said by Vyper, not me. And it is just opinions problem. I bring in the comparison mostly with trolling intend, but sure, you can take it serious all you like.

I don't disagree, but I think it's important to underline the timing difference. A +10 to cost on your first unit is at least something around ~2% of your total manpower pool for your first volks. The 20 manpower that was also taken off means that the 30 manpower took away ~5% from their minute 0 economy.

A 50 manpower discount on grenades saves you... nothing because no one techs grenades anyway. Speaking more seriously, ~80-90% of the time the buff will do literally nothing. In the times where it does make a difference, it'll save you less than 1% of the manpower you already accrued.

The numbers oversimplify things, but the idea I want to underline is that each point of manpower matters more the earlier you are into a game.

That is true.

I do tech nades eventually, and I guess it sort of helps but really it's not much change at all in the grand scheme of things. Definitely won't actually make a difference in terms of overall power levels.

Stumpio was able to charge infantry sections behind sandbags from max range and win for years by now.

You mean charge 4man Sections behind sandbags with Spios in the first engagement and get wiped?

Yes I remember that beautiful balance. Wish I saved some videos of how insanely broken sections were. Only thing funnier than how broken they were is how utterly in denial every ukf player is about them.

Well you're getting what you want because USF isn't really getting any buffs this patch. I'd hardly call the almost unnoticeable change to a lame side tech a buff.

It is a buff. Makes it 50mp cheaper to get grenades. Don‘t get me wrong, I love the change, but calling it not a buff is wrong.

Most people bring it up when directly comparing squads in which case it absolutely matters. Far fewer people suggest that it makes teching take longer, and it's hardly worth making a thread about

It's about direct squad to squad comparisons, like volks vs Riflemen. Not the time it takes to tech up

by that logic should axis tank take account of the extra cost ?