Elite Panzerschreck

And yes, you can counter a Luchs with bazookas. Just like you can counter it with PTRS Penals. Which works because they are 6 men and the Luchs can't close in to push them around. Unlike Schreck squads though.

Me : Hint, don't close de distance. Aka with your LV.

That was a discussion point you completely made up.
Quick recap of the discussion on that regard:

The only double standard here is you believing Zook have more range than shreck.

LVs have 5 more range, keep your LV moving at max range and neither zook, ptrs, piat or shreck will be able to fire a salvo. It requires skill to do so? Yes and I'm not the best skilled player on that matter but I understand that it is the way things are balanced between them.

OKW is not the best faction equiped around handled AT, yes that's true but guess what they are the best equiped with light vehicles, the Puma own every LV and the Luch doesn't give a shit about small arms damage. Not seing the balance here is a problem of you, not the game.

Me : Hint, don't close de distance. Aka with your LV.

This is EXACTLY what I stated. I'll make it clear one last time: Only against single Schreck squads you can close in with low risk, because they lack both high alpha damage and a snare.

The only double standard here is you believing Zook have more range than shreck.

That one is made up again, I never said that. Point out where I made that argument.

LVs have 5 more range, keep your LV moving at max range and neither zook, ptrs, piat or shreck will be able to fire a salvo. It requires skill to do so? Yes and I'm not the best skilled player on that matter but I understand that it is the way things are balanced between them.

OKW is not the best faction equiped around handled AT, yes that's true but guess what they are the best equiped with light vehicles, the Puma own every LV and the Luch doesn't give a shit about small arms damage. Not seing the balance here is a problem of you, not the game.

Point 1 is also exactly what I said, don't try to make it look different. Matter of fact is that everyone, even top level players, eat bazookas and Schrecks because 5 meters is a distance that is easy to bridge for at least one volley.

To point 2:
Yes, OKW has the best LVs in the game. But since you always argue with faction design: What about T1? Keep it unviable forever? If OKW goes T2 they have decrnt AT options, if not they are stuck with their ATG only and a single Schreck that is pretty much useless and - as I already stated - makes your Sturmpionier helpless in 1v1 situations.

This is EXACTLY what I stated. I'll make it clear one last time: Only against single Schreck squads you can close in with low risk, because they lack both high alpha damage and a snare.


That one is made up again, I never said that. Point out where I made that argument.


Point 1 is also exactly what I said, don't try to make it look different. Matter of fact is that everyone, even top level players, eat bazookas and Schrecks because 5 meters is a distance that is easy to bridge for at least one volley.

To point 2:
Yes, OKW has the best LVs in the game. But since you always argue with faction design: What about T1? Keep it unviable forever? If OKW goes T2 they have decrnt AT options, if not they are stuck with their ATG only and a single Schreck that is pretty much useless and - as I already stated - makes your Sturmpionier helpless in 1v1 situations.

Low risk of what? Being shot at?
Don't close the distance and you'll be fine. Other factions have it easier then play those other factions.
T1 make it more difficult to counter LVs than T2 PUMA? then go T2 PUMA to rolfstomp LVs or get better. That's the exact same shit for any faction with non linear tier, soviet T1 or T2, USF T1 or T2 and the most obvious one Brit Hammer or Anvil.

Your thread look like the one asking for 5 men grenadier. You want potent shreck squad then play Ostheer or take a doctrine. You want stock rocket artillery then don't play USF or Brit or take a doctrine etc...

Low risk of what? Being shot at?
Don't close the distance and you'll be fine. Other factions have it easier then play those other factions.
T1 make it more difficult to counter LVs than T2 PUMA? then go T2 PUMA to rolfstomp LVs or get better. That's the exact same shit for any faction with non linear tier, soviet T1 or T2, USF T1 or T2 and the most obvious one Brit Hammer or Anvil.

Your thread look like the one asking for 5 men grenadier. You want potent shreck squad then play Ostheer or take a doctrine. You want stock rocket artillery then don't play USF or Brit or take a doctrine etc...

Alright. I've explained my points thrice now and you still try to argue about something completely different regarding the performance vs LVs. I'm not sure why you try to make it look like I had problems with keeping LVs alive because that was never a discussion point. Driving your Luchs into bazooka Riflemen will get it killed as it shouls. Driving your T70 into Schreck Sturmpioniere will get the Schreck squad killed. Or to rephrase previous posts: an isolated zook RM squad can easily defend until help arrives. The Schreck squad can't, although being similar in MP and mun investment. Same goes for PTRS Penals and even the cheaper PIAT REs.

I also don't know why you want to keep OKW T1 shitty. Please riddle me this, since you dodged the question now multiple times: Why are Schreck Sturmpioniere almost never used in even somewhat decent games if they were absolutely fine? And why should OKW be the only faction that is locked an ATG as the sole source of AT when going T1 (this obviously supposes that the single Schreck is not sufficient on Sturmpios in its current state).

I'll leave it at that, since this thread has basically turned into a conversation between us instead of a forum discussion.

I'll say this again:

Sturmpios doesn't need better PS, they just need to be made compatible with the sweeper upgrade. If it was my way it would work like this.

-Single upgrade = swap it down.
-2 upgrades = permanent.

Alternative: once the PS + sweeper is upgraded, the unit no longer gets repair bonuses nor can put the sweeper down.


No changes to AT Partisans. Partisans on themselves need a look over

Stormtrooper AT: they could fire slightly faster. That's it.

...

Stormtrooper AT: they could fire slightly faster. That's it.

One could add a satchel to S.T. similar cav riflemen and/or replace the "Vehicle detection" with "Vehicle Tracking" the m-42 ability and/or add a Tellar/riegel.

It is rather ironic that AT partisan get Spawn shreck, AT grenades, mines, a penetration bonus and first strike bonus and AT ST do not get a detection ability.

I think this is a great idea! I think it will be worth while to upgrade storm troopers. I just hope this doesn't apply to Panzerfus!?

I think this is a great idea! I think it will be worth while to upgrade storm troopers. I just hope this doesn't apply to Panzerfus!?

Nope OP specifically wants it for squads with 1 shreck. Doesn't apply to pgrens and pfusiliers

Now that Panzergrenadiers are T0, we could just give Stormtroopers two Panzershrecks.

The Sturmpioneer could be given the option to upgrade a second after two trucks are down, maybe?

everyone laugh about stpios with schreck..no fear is needed.

but what u fear is a fu**** brit pio with double piats and snare.

well said ullu. Thats why i highlighted the amount of double standards.

I will say though that assimetry balance can create such situations and it will be fine, but specifically PIATS were designed to be hard punching because the UKF mainlines had no infantry snare per se. Now it is an overperfing combo that gives UKF yet another reason to blob like a zombienation

One could add a satchel to S.T. similar cav riflemen and/or replace the "Vehicle detection" with "Vehicle Tracking" the m-42 ability and/or add a Tellar/riegel.

It is rather ironic that AT partisan get Spawn shreck, AT grenades, mines, a penetration bonus and first strike bonus and AT ST do not get a detection ability.

Yes let’s give the unit with commando camo vehicle satchels and or 2 out of the 3 most OP and cheesy mines in the game. Nothing could possibly go wrong there.

Yes let’s give the unit with commando camo vehicle satchels and or 2 out of the 3 most OP and cheesy mines in the game. Nothing could possibly go wrong there.

You mean elite AT weapons, mines, camo first strike bonus like that support Paras get or powerful snares, camo, first strike like AT conscripts get or snares, camo, mines, vet penetration first strike bonus, extra sight, spawning with AT weapons like AT partisan get?

You mean elite AT weapons, mines, camo first strike bonus like that support Paras get or powerful snares, camo, first strike like AT conscripts get or snares, camo, mines, vet penetration first strike bonus, extra sight, spawning with AT weapons like AT partisan get?

Tellers and riegels are not equal to normal mines lmao.

Also para support squads have the worst camo in the game (which is also bugged). Try actually using them and you'll see the camo hardly works at all; I've made 2 threads about it and it's still unfixed.

Tellers and riegels are not equal to normal mines lmao.

Normal mines get engine damage similar to Teller, if you want more damage use 2.

Also para support squads have the worst camo in the game (which is also bugged). Try actually using them and you'll see the camo hardly works at all; I've made 2 threads about it and it's still unfixed.

Are actually arguing that Shreck ST are a better AT squad that Support Paras? because it seem so and actually they are not.

Normal mines get engine damage similar to Teller, if you want more damage use 2.


Are actually arguing that Shreck ST are a better AT squad that Support Paras? because it seem so and actually they are not.

Tellers 1-shot light vehicles, only trigger on vehicles, and do like 3x the damage for 20 more muni. They are not exactly comparable to normal mines. Didn't think I'd have to explain that to you but here we are.

As regards to para support squads, you seem to be misunderstanding (completely) what I am saying for some reason. The issue with giving 1-shot vehicle only mines to stormtroopers is that they have the best camouflage tier in the game, meaning they could walk around completely invisible and plant mines while invisible, which can then 1-shot light vehicles with 0 warning. If that's not cancerous and OP I don't know what is. Meanwhile, I made the point that paras have the worst possible camo type in the game that doesn't even work properly in live, so them having much worse mines is not an issue the same way stormtroopers having tellers would be.

Tellers 1-shot light vehicles, only trigger on vehicles, and do like 3x the damage for 20 more muni. They are not exactly comparable to normal mines. Didn't think I'd have to explain that to you but here we are.

As regards to para support squads, you seem to be misunderstanding (completely) what I am saying for some reason. The issue with giving 1-shot vehicle only mines to stormtroopers is that they have the best camouflage tier in the game, meaning they could walk around completely invisible and plant mines while invisible, which can then 1-shot light vehicles with 0 warning. If that's not cancerous and OP I don't know what is. Meanwhile, I made the point that paras have the worst possible camo type in the game that doesn't even work properly in live, so them having much worse mines is not an issue the same way stormtroopers having tellers would be.

And my point is Shreck ST are worse at the role than most AT squads including AT Partisans. Now if you problem is the teller mine give the shu mines it will make little difference.

I like this idea for a single Panzerschreck. Kind of reminds me of some form of elite Bazookas

And my point is Shreck ST are worse at the role than most AT squads including AT Partisans. Now if you problem is the teller mine give the shu mines it will make little difference.

Yes. If they have mines make them schu mines. I still think that's a bit much for storms considering they're leagues better than partisans and have better camo than AT paras but it's much better than tellers or riegels

Tellers 1-shot light vehicles, only trigger on vehicles, and do like 3x the damage for 20 more muni. They are not exactly comparable to normal mines. Didn't think I'd have to explain that to you but here we are.

If by normal mines you dont mean about stock mines, then you are playing literally other game. Sadly we are talkin about CoH2 here and OST has the "Best" mines for a reason. I have seen biased perspective but this is ridiculous!

-The new standart for "normal mines" is literally USF AT mine, everything above it is simply OP.
Yeah, big brain time!

Stormtroopers shouldn’t have an AT package imo. Panzergrenadiers already get stock double Panzershreks.

As for Elite Panzershreks, I’d like to see Pioneers get one regardless of sweeper but not alongside Flamethrower. This should help Ostheer combat its vehicle weakness.