PzIV becomes obsolete once they heavy TDs appear since they can damage at range 60 with a probability close to 100%.
Lolwut?
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PzIV becomes obsolete once they heavy TDs appear since they can damage at range 60 with a probability close to 100%.
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Lolwut?
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Once a USF player (or more, in larger modes) has 2+ m36s, building a P4 is pointless. If both M36s fire at the same time, the P4 is dropped instantly to 50% HP and forced to retreat.
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All these threads about Allied TDs is solely due to lower CP requirements for heavy tanks and thus the heavy tank meta in the current patch. All these post are from people that play with Grand Offensive commander almost every game
Posts: 960
All these threads about Allied TDs is solely due to lower CP requirements for heavy tanks and thus the heavy tank meta in the current patch. All these post are from people that play with Grand Offensive commander almost every game
Well 2 M36s vs 2 vet 2 P4s is actually not that hard to win as Ost, especially if you have panzer tactician and can retreat the damaged one.
The key is getting up close and having munitions for blitzkrieg and smoke.
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They had the same HP as M10s and StuGs, so they were still four taps for most vehicles.
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Vet 0 Su85 doesn't have issues dealing with heavier armor and with vet, it makes armor irrelevant cause it will only deflect the likes of Ele (Pen goes to 312/299/286)
Which one?
OH one doesn't improve combat capabilities so they will still miss and they still need to close the 20 range gap.
The heavier variation of Blitz has inferior numbers (so only relevant to PV). Making the PV, a much more expensive tank hunter requiring to chase (missing) for quite some time before killing it.
OKW one is much more tamer speed wise but instead gains combat capabilities but for a reduce period of time (10s).
As this stats haven't changed in a while, i think it should be correct:
Jackson
Speed: 6.5 Accel: 3 Rotate: 30
OKW PIV:
Speed: 6 Accel: 2 Rotate: 30
OH PIV:
Speed: 6.3 Accel: 2.1 Rotate: 32
OH/OKW PV:
Speed: 6.6 Accel: 2.4 Rotate: 30
Firefly
Speed: 5.3 Accel: 1.6 Rotate: 32
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Once a USF player (or more, in larger modes) has 2+ m36s, building a P4 is pointless. If both M36s fire at the same time, the P4 is dropped instantly to 50% HP and forced to retreat.
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Once a ost/okw player (or more, in larger modes) has Panther/2+ JP4, building a M4/T34/Cromwell is pointless...
etc.
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How? The M36s have +15 range, accelerate faster, have a higher top speed, and 50% better moving accuracy. Provided the USF player is competent, there's no way the P4s could win; they wouldn't actually get within range of the M36s to begin with.
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Do you even play the game or do you look at spreadsheets all day?
It's quite easy to get in range of an enemy tank if you scout properly, there really aren't that many places where you can find them, usually behind the main enemy line. If you make a good flank with a minesweeper Pioneer it's really not that difficult, or if you have recon or stormtroopers or a sniper for scouting.
As OKW you have the IR HT, JLI, smoke recon and the always hilarious Jagdpanzer camo and hold fire approach.
Seriously, M36s don't have 60 sight, if you play your cards properly you can easily assault them.
As for the moving accuracy, I really don't give a damn since I can micro them to stop before firing and move afterwards so it's not an issue.
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Unless the M36(s) has an undefended flank (not happening on most 2v2 maps), the USF player is going to see the P4 coming; there's always an RE squad, rifle squad, or something on or near the flanks for this exact reason. Even if you know where the M36s are, and the USF player doesn't see your scout, you need to (somehow) get your P4s within 40 range of the M36s without the USF noticing. If they're paying attention, they'll almost always hear the P4 or see it breaking some objects; good players aren't surprised by flanking tanks.
As for moving accuracy, it's just another thing in the M36s favor. Every time you hit "stop" on your P4, the M36 gets slightly further away. The USF player also doesn't have to keep track of the reload time, so that means less micro tax for them, too. That gives them the opportunity to (more easily) bring an ATG, Bazooka squad, or Rifle-AT grenade into the fight.
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Mainly from a 1v1 perspective, this is a question of skill and timing.
Skill because this is a complicated assault to pull off. You need to find a hole in the enemy line, sweep for mines and spot (both with sweeper pio squad) and carefully bring full speed P4s through the hole to engage a single Jackson, kill it within 1 reload cycle (1st two shots from each P4), then pop smoke if they have it and blitz back to their lines.
The second question is timing. I like to make counterpushes when the opponent is attacking me because then their micro is focused on other engagements allowing me to get a few crucial seconds unnoticed where I gang up on an enemy tank before retreating.
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All that work, and if the USF player has a single unit that spots your approaching Pio or P4s it doesn't work; and/or you lose a P4 (or more). It also doesn't prevent the USF player from hearing your P4s or seeing objects being broken through the FoW,
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Well it’s risk vs reward, and my point is the M36 does not make the Panzer IV irrelevant whatsoever if the P4 is used properly and the tables can be turned on the M36.
One last thing to note is you can’t just assume your opponent will always micro properly and catching him during a moment of chaos can lead to crucial mistakes from him. You should also be prepared to bail if things go against you, which is where blitz and smoke come in extremely handy, but again this is all skill based.
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You're talking about nerfing its acceleration, if the player doesn't know how to stop before fire I can't help here.
Then again I'm not sure why a generalist medium tank that cost less and is already on the top food chain vs other generalist medium tanks should have a fair % of chance to take down a more expensive specialist tank destroyer.
Even enlarging the big picture to all Ostheer vs USF late game roaster, there is only one other unit that can go toes to toes with late game Ostheer and that's the Pershing.
Jackson being THE superior TD is a lie since the Jackson and Panther matchup is balanced and this is what matter today. People complain that their Pz4's windows of opportunity is reduced, well that's the same problem for everyone using medium tanks. Fixing Heavy tank problem is a first step but Jackson is still going to be there even if you nerf heavy tanks to oblivion because Panthers are here and from what we see in this patch, they're going to be even more here.
Posts: 1794
All these threads about Allied TDs is solely due to lower CP requirements for heavy tanks and thus the heavy tank meta in the current patch. All these post are from people that play with Grand Offensive commander almost every game
Posts: 1794
While this poll is interesting, we cannot disregard the general faction that each TD has to work in. Of course the Jackson is too good for it's price, but that's because everything else in USF loadout does not reliably deal even with a P4.
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