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G43's are simply OP

1 Feb 2020, 19:25 PM
#41
avatar of Latch

Posts: 773



I told you to use trenches for Tommies and now you’re asking for a replay of me playing some random OKW guy.

This is 3000 IQ.


Lol ffs, my next videos I will make sure to mention trenches just to make sure you dont think I forgot they exist or use them.

Yes I am asking you for a replay because you seem to know something I dont, demonstrate it in a live game, that's all I am asking, not hard is it.
1 Feb 2020, 19:27 PM
#42
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1



WAIT WHAT

Where does it say that? And why would that be the case WTF why are they both called G43s then???

Many units units use the same weapon "type" but get more or less performance of it, depending on weather they "support" "mainline" or elite.

Ober k98 >>Gren k98>VG K98>Pf k98.

You can find the DPS of weapons if you download the COH2 tools and get a weapons report.
1 Feb 2020, 19:31 PM
#43
avatar of Latch

Posts: 773

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Feb 2020, 19:03 PMVipper

The flaw in the logic is that you attribute the mismatch between UKF and Grand offensive to PF.

The last tournament indicated that UKF where generally weaker than other allied faction and that Grand offensive was OP compared to other OKW commanders.

But PF had little to do with it. Things would probably turn also ugly if the PF where replaced in the commander with something else.

The only version of G43 that seems to be problematic is the PG/ST version.


I would say thats pretty accurate and some of my arguments are directed wrongly but I still stand by that G43's are an issue, when blobbed, G43's due to their snipe crit results in models just dropping from the fight therfore cutting your fighting effeciency down by 25-20% super fast wheras other fights they have to drain their health down to 0 before a model dies.

Obviously most weapons are an issue when blobbed but as I said above, the snipe takes it to another level.
1 Feb 2020, 19:31 PM
#44
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563



WAIT WHAT

Where does it say that? And why would that be the case WTF why are they both called G43s then???

Stats wise they are.

PF g43:
0-6: 8.3 dps 9.8 dps (Para/Ranger Carbine 9.9)
35: 1.98 dps (Carbines 1.85)

PG/ST g43:
0-6: 12.8 dps (bars are 13.6)
35: 4.11 dps (bars are 3.9)

PG/ST one are like 3 bars.
1 Feb 2020, 19:37 PM
#45
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Feb 2020, 19:31 PMLatch
G43's due to their snipe crit results in models just dropping from the fight therfore cutting your fighting effeciency down by 25-20% super fast wheras other fights they have to drain their health down to 0 before a model dies.

Obviously most weapons are an issue when blobbed but as I said above, the snipe takes it to another level.


Wait, Pfusiliers have model snipes?
1 Feb 2020, 19:38 PM
#46
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Feb 2020, 19:31 PMLatch


I would say thats pretty accurate and some of my arguments are directed wrongly but I still stand by that G43's are an issue, when blobbed, G43's due to their snipe crit results in models just dropping from the fight therfore cutting your fighting effeciency down by 25-20% super fast wheras other fights they have to drain their health down to 0 before a model dies.

Obviously most weapons are an issue when blobbed but as I said above, the snipe takes it to another level.

No they do not.
Only JLI's and JCS do that for axis.
1 Feb 2020, 19:40 PM
#47
avatar of T.R. Stormjäger

Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3


No they do not.
Only JLI's and JCS do that for axis.


Command squad doesn’t model crit either.
1 Feb 2020, 19:40 PM
#48
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563



Command squad doesn’t model crit either.

Really, but kill so fast at long range.
1 Feb 2020, 19:42 PM
#49
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Feb 2020, 19:31 PMLatch


I would say thats pretty accurate and some of my arguments are directed wrongly but I still stand by that G43's are an issue, when blobbed, G43's due to their snipe crit results in models just dropping from the fight therfore cutting your fighting effeciency down by 25-20% super fast wheras other fights they have to drain their health down to 0 before a model dies.

Obviously most weapons are an issue when blobbed but as I said above, the snipe takes it to another level.

Yes but the point I am trying to get to you is that not all units with G43 use the "same".
Grenadier use a different model
Pg/ST use a different model
PF use a different model

By putting them in the same pile you are making it very difficult to debate anything because the performance is different.

Its like saying sten are problematic when Ro.E, Assault IS and Commandos use a different type of weapon...
1 Feb 2020, 20:13 PM
#50
avatar of Latch

Posts: 773


Really, but kill so fast at long range.


Thats my confusion too, if they dont snipe then how do they consistently drop models incredibly fast, it seems far too often to be confimation bias.
1 Feb 2020, 20:24 PM
#51
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Feb 2020, 20:13 PMLatch


Thats my confusion too, if they dont snipe then how do they consistently drop models incredibly fast, it seems far too often to be confimation bias.

Maybe because 5*16=80 for the case of JCS. Their g34's have high acc and fast fire rate. The fusiliers might be similar but i don't know. To me fusiliers don't kill as fast, they win vs alot of different infantry but don't kill all that fast.
1 Feb 2020, 20:26 PM
#52
avatar of Katitof

Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8



WAIT WHAT

Where does it say that? And why would that be the case WTF why are they both called G43s then???

For the same reason Obers Kar is, grens Kar, osttruppen Kar, volks Kar and PFs Kar are all called the same, but are all completely different weapons.
2 Feb 2020, 00:58 AM
#53
avatar of IncendiaryRounds:)

Posts: 1527

Permanently Banned
I think pgren g43 are in a good spot, not sure why people think they deserve a nerf. Aren't falls still better?
2 Feb 2020, 08:12 AM
#54
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

I think pgren g43 are in a good spot, not sure why people think they deserve a nerf. Aren't falls still better?

pgren g43's are each like BARs, Also they have extremely good moving dps. Compared to 3 bar they are quite cheap (50/60 muni vs 180 muni, yet another one of Lelic's money over balance design).
They are balanced by the fact that pg's are 4 man squads and Rifle have better defensive vet. But I guess that they come earlier and their pretty cheap irks them or something.
2 Feb 2020, 09:43 AM
#55
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3


pgren g43's are each like BARs, Also they have extremely good moving dps. Compared to 3 bar they are quite cheap (50/60 muni vs 180 muni, yet another one of Lelic's money over balance design).


Well obviously the upgrade doesn't cost 180 munitions because you're not upgrading from an M1 Garand, but an Stg44 / elite MP40 on a limited amount of expensive squads.
2 Feb 2020, 10:58 AM
#56
avatar of FelixTHM

Posts: 503 | Subs: 1



Wait, Pfusiliers have model snipes?


They don't. It's just the usual Latch-logic.
2 Feb 2020, 11:07 AM
#57
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post1 Feb 2020, 19:27 PMVipper

Many units units use the same weapon "type" but get more or less performance of it, depending on weather they "support" "mainline" or elite.

Ober k98 >>Gren k98>VG K98>Pf k98.

You can find the DPS of weapons if you download the COH2 tools and get a weapons report.

PF kars are better at long range the VG kars though.
2 Feb 2020, 11:10 AM
#58
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563



Well obviously the upgrade doesn't cost 180 munitions because you're not upgrading from an M1 Garand, but an Stg44 / elite MP40 on a limited amount of expensive squads.

Yeah, You can justify that for pg's but not for ST's. Their default weapon is kar98's. The mp40's are still free. ST's are less expensive than rangers. And rangers have to 180 muni for 3 bars.
2 Feb 2020, 11:37 AM
#59
avatar of JibberJabberJobber

Posts: 1614 | Subs: 3


Yeah, You can justify that for pg's but not for ST's. Their default weapon is kar98's. The mp40's are still free. ST's are less expensive than rangers. And rangers have to 180 muni for 3 bars.


They only start with Kars because spawning out of garrisons would be too powerful otherwise, their actual default weapons are MP40's which have elite weapon stats:

0 / 15 / 35 range:
elite MP40 - 18.69 / 7.14 / 0.1
elite G43 - 13.263 / 6.877 / 3.5-ish

It's more of a sidegrade than anything, one of the most prolific Stormtrooper users - Captainsprice - strongly prefers MP40 Storms over G43 Storms. But you have the choice since MP40's don't lock out other upgrades.

You should also be comparing Rangers with their intended weapon loadout of 4 Thompons, grabbing 3 BAR's with them is a bad trade.
2 Feb 2020, 11:44 AM
#60
avatar of Vipper

Posts: 13496 | Subs: 1


PF kars are better at long range the VG kars though.

Only at range 33. The max range DPS difference is 0.048 thus negligible...VG have a better weapon.
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