Winter balance (1/2020) feedback OKW

Fallschirmjaeger

-Panzerfaust removed


Actually I am not very happy with the place where Fall currently are.

1) In their current position their between an infiltration unit and airdropped unit.

2) 4 model squad with equal distribution of fire power seem to be problematic due to DPS

Suggestions:
Move them towards infiltration unit design by replacing airdrop with ambient building spawn.
or
Move them towards airdrop design by increase size 5-6 as other paras.

If 4 men squad approach is kept reduce the number of Fg44 2 and adjust dps to reduce DPS drop.

Other experimental options:

A) Since the are equipped with scoped Fg43 create switchable firing mode.

Long range mode using the scope with a profile with DPS drop off close and normal fire with lower far DPS. Weapon could become disabled for 2-3 sec during transition.

That would the unit more interesting, require more micro and have weakness.

B) Redesigning the "Blendkörper 2H Frangible Smoke Grenade" to work as a soft snare to vehicles to vehicles. Becomes a homing AT grenade that disable weapons to vehicles (maybe cause some damage). That would allow safe retreat from vehicles with out making able to fight vehicles.

In addition it is histrionically accurate.

LE.IG/Mortar Half-Track Incendiary Barrage

-DOT Incendiary +25% against Commonwealth Emplacement tag removed.
-Brings DOT damage per tick versus defenses from 4.67 to 3.75

I do not see why this nerf in necessary or not compensated some other way.

As commander ability is really UP. It provides a unit that requires specific tech tree, incendiary munition that for other units come with unit for free, in an commander that does not even had a really good ability.

Suggestions:
Keep the nerf but make the ability better but add a doctrinal Gw 34 mortal that can fire incendiary rounds
or
Add a single incendiary round to the Puma
or
Add incendiary/WP rounds to the stuka
or
add a MHT

In addition remove world collision in the leig incendiary barrage or reduce the friendly fire of the DOT since the weapon many times collides with shot blocker and damages the crew itself.

Add extra invisible explosion to the weapon so it can damage unit on multi floor buildings.

^ with this, bofors cancer emplacements are still useless, but take longer to take down, making them cancer for OKW aswell.

I do not see why this nerf in necessary or not compensated some other way

There was no need for it to deal that much damage to emplacements for a mere 35 munitions. It dealt about 80-90% damage to a braced mortar and 80-90% damage to an unbraced Bofors. Now the damage has been toned down by 5-10%, which does nothing for the amount of barrages needed to kill the emplacement (2), but will hopefully give the UKF player at least a chance to repair enough to survive the second barrage.

As commander ability is really UP

I disagree, the ability is remarkably useful to flush out enemy positions, most noticeably garrisons / FHQs / forward ambulances etc. The commander is focused on urban combat, and it excels at it. The LeIG incendiary barrage is a big part of that. Feuersturm OKW is nearly unbeatable on urban maps like Ettelbruck Station.

Add extra invisible explosion to the weapon so it can damage unit on multi floor buildings.

Damage against multistory or very large buildings was already buffed by increasing the impact damage against garrisons last patch. Impact damage alone will deal about 80% health damage regardless of where the models are now. Easily enough to force a retreat.

There was no need for it to deal that much damage to emplacements for a mere 35 munitions. It dealt about 80-90% damage to a braced mortar and 80-90% damage to an unbraced Bofors. Now the damage has been toned down by 5-10%, which does nothing for the amount of barrages needed to kill the emplacement (2), but will hopefully give the UKF player at least a chance to repair enough to survive the second barrage.

The ability might be good if it worked but has a number of issues like:
Many shots collide with terrain, especially vs pits behind shot blokers
Many shots miss

I have used and in in many cases it was a waste of Mu.

I disagree, the ability is remarkably useful to flush out enemy positions, most noticeably garrisons / FHQs / forward ambulances etc. The commander is focused on urban combat, and it excels at it. The LeIG incendiary barrage is a big part of that. Feuersturm OKW is nearly unbeatable on urban maps like Ettelbruck Station.

The ability is only useful if one built T1 and decided to actually build a leig. Else is completely useless.

That is fact. My suggestions aim to make the ability work without forcing the player to go T1/Leig just to benefit from a commander ability. And should not that hard to implement. Gw43 with incendiary rounds are already in game is an Ostheer commander.

The commander is very situational, was it use only once is the latest tournament?

Damage against multistory or very large buildings was already buffed by increasing the impact damage against garrisons last patch. Impact damage alone will deal about 80% health damage regardless of where the models are now. Easily enough to force a retreat.

Moving the Damage to DOT is far better mechanism for a number reasons:
Less hit/miss since DOT has large AOE
More time react
Forces ungarrison

...

I use Feuersturm on Ettelbruck every time. Last time both of my ISG had ~40 kills each and were both vet 5 undoubtedly due to the frequent fire barrage usage. the incendiary barrage is amazing vs pak howie, mortar teams, MGs, emplacements and forward HQ. I can't count how many HQ buildings I set on fire with fire barrage and Spio flamer. You have to be aware of enemy Katy, but luckily for me, my opponent wasn't on point with his barrages and I managed to keep both the ISGs alive.

I use Feuersturm on Ettelbruck every time. Last time both of my ISG had ~40 kills each and were both vet 5 undoubtedly due to the frequent fire barrage usage. the incendiary barrage is amazing vs pak howie, mortar teams, MGs, emplacements and forward HQ. I can't count how many HQ buildings I set on fire with fire barrage and Spio flamer. You have to be aware of enemy Katy, but luckily for me, my opponent wasn't on point with his barrages and I managed to keep both the ISGs alive.

I am not questioning the ability itself (although many I have seen it end up in wasted munition looking at shot exploding on world objects and even causing friendly damage).

I am question the ability taking up a slot on it own when it requires, a medic truck and building a Leig.

If nothing else it at least should allow the Leig to built from HQ so that it did not force specific tect option.

The commander is very situational, was it use only once is the latest tournament?

That's not an argument, plenty of commanders are situational. When was the last time you saw Jaeger Armor being used in a 1v1 tournament? Feuersturm is amazing for the urban 3v3 and 4v4 maps.

I am not questioning the ability itself (although many I have seen it end up in wasted munition looking at shot exploding on world objects and even causing friendly damage).

I am question the ability taking up a slot on it own when it requires, a medic truck and building a Leig.

If nothing else it at least should allow the Leig to built from HQ so that it did not force specific tect option.

I see what you're saying, but this is just a part of a commander who has several good abilities/units. It synergizes well with Battlegruppe due to ammo but on the other hand offers you sort of an "ambulance" so it might be tempting to go mechanized. It gives you possibilities and it's up to you, if you want to use them all or not. Whenever I go Feuersturm it's usually a tight urban area in which I know I will need indirect fire, as I will have to counter garrisons, mortar pit/ pack howie or FHQ. If I want mechanized, I will usually backtech to it later and get it mostly for Stuka zu Fuss. Also ATG and MG are already in T0 so I think moving also ISG to T0 if you pick this commander would spoil the OKW player.

If you lose your battlegruppe HQ due to for example brit base howitzers, as long as you don't lose your ISGs, you can just replace the HQ with Opel-ambo next time.

Sidenote:
When you mention this it reminds me of USF. It's in a weird position with some of its commanders giving stuff they don't really need either. Paratroopers with pak howie is a nice bundle that doesn't really help much as you will need ATG anyway, so you tech CPT, so you may well get AAHT as it's a really good vehicle and cheaper in FU and MU than Grayhound. You pay 80 MU extra for uncrewed howie when you have paratroopers who hunger for extra 120 MU for LMG. Also when you lose your paras or want another group, you have to pay again this extra 80 MU even if you don't care about another howie. This makes the commander intended to be used with both CPT and LT to have access to ATG and MG, while you are supposed to get M8 for a LV and indirect fire with Paras bundle. This way however you spend more muni and more fuel as opposed to unlocking CPT, having pack howie in tech and using AAHT in a role of suppression and LV. Weird designs are weird.

That's not an argument, plenty of commanders are situational. When was the last time you saw Jaeger Armor being used in a 1v1 tournament? Feuersturm is amazing for the urban 3v3 and 4v4 maps.

On its own it is not. I used in a combination of arguments. When it comes to commander design, I have no problem with commander that have great abilities if the rest of the abilities are UP. My point is simply if the barrage was part of Grand offensive it would even mention being nerfed.

Currently is available is situational commander with situational abilities like:
MP40 and Hezter.

The ability itself need to many prerequisite like going T1 and building a Leig. Else it completely useless.

And my suggestion aims to fix that. So I do not see the problem.

One could simply bundle it up with flamer scrap m40 and add a new ability or one could allow Leig to built from HQ so that it does not force T1 or one could add the GW 34 mortar with incendiary barrage which is in game so that ability has some use even if one goes for T2.

I have yet to see a single argument why that would be bad for the Commander or the Game.

In you opinion the commander is great but that does not meal that adding a GW 34 with incendiary barrage would make it broken.

IR 251 Half-track /Infrared ST44 package

Would would also be nice and realistic is to create a synergy of the IR HT and Infrared weapons.

Suggestion:
Rename ability to "Infrared package" allow Panthers to upgrade with IR scopes. Add bonuses to Infrared equipped units when operating with IR HT.

Maybe allow some other units to upgrade with IR weapon adjusting performance accordingly.

Make a wish again,StormPioneer can upgrade sweeper with shreck or Flamethrower（shreck and Flamethrowe still either-or）not lock out each other

IR 251 Half-track /Infrared ST44 package

Would would also be nice and realistic is to create a synergy of the IR HT and Infrared weapons.

Suggestion:
Rename ability to "Infrared package" allow Panthers to upgrade with IR scopes. Add bonuses to Infrared equipped units when operating with IR HT.

Maybe allow some other units to upgrade with IR weapon adjusting performance accordingly.

Agree,give more ability for IRstg,or make IRstg rework be a call in special infantry squad will be good

Bug Fixes
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Great work as always. Bravo guys.

OKW

OKW Battlegroup Headquarters

Medic search range from 20 to 25

Sound good need more testing.

Good work

Tiger - All variants
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CP
CP sound good, require all buildings for Tiger would make it overlap with KT and have the the downside of not becoming available if the T4 is destroyed.

All tech buildings
Requirement of building being on map should be removed imo and if it need extra tech cost add unlocking medic/mechanics or a separated tech as explained in other threads.

AOE
The AI of the unit probably need toning down.

Synergy
Another aspect of the unit is the Commander upgrade. I had razed my concern for this ability when it was buffed but it seemed to create little issues in the elite commander. Imo it diffidently problematic with Tiger. The upgrade imo should either not be available to the Tiger (maybe use the Tiger ACE model) or it should be removed from the commander.

Command Tank aspect

I think that it is safe to say that in the "command" aspect the vehicle has failed (did the ability get used even once in the tournament?)

So imo either it should be properly implement or removed.

Sturmtiger

-Grenade ability is now a timed passive. Automatically attacks enemies for 30 seconds
-Grenade AOE damage from 1/0.35/0.25 to 0.75/0.4/0.25
-Grenade AOE distance from 1.25/2.5/3.75 to 0/1.25/3.75
-Grenade reload duration from 0 to 4

The changes in the grenades will finally make it a useful ability.
Good work.

On the other hand there problem with the unit that remain.

1) commander, does not benefit either from heat round nor from the commander upgrade could be moved to over-watch or special Op.

2) collision
Imo one could try to make the unit more about durability less about wipe potential.

Sturmtiger needs lower vet requirements and it’s just fine. Vetting it up in 1v1 is a huge chore with how diluted it is.

Jagdtiger
-Fuel cost from 260 to 245

Requiring T4 present to be called in should be removed

The unit need to be look at since it does not seem to perform that great. Since the cost has been reduced the XP value of the unit should also follow.
One can also have a look at the vet bonuses:
For instance:
It does not get ac/de at vet 2 similar to Elephant
Vet 4 -25 scatter is an ambiguous bonus since TDs benefit from long linear scatter.

OKW LeFH 18
-Population from 15 to 13

A rather neutral change.
Can we changes the vet 5 ability "Direct Fire" with an actual useful bonus?
Maybe automatic crew heal?

i dont care about consistency when OKW is the only faction that would profit from that change.
What about the KT? As far as i know OKW is able to call in a KT when its T4 is destroyed.
If you want consistency, allies should be able to consistent punish greedy OKW player without a backup Tiger

If your problem is OKW I suggest you debate in the OKW thread and not the ostheer one.

And it is a bit silly that OKW would be able to call in a stock KT without the T4 and not a Tiger...