An idea to buff G43 rifles for grens

Maybe the g43's don't lock out mg42 or atlest lock it out till T4.

What about an indirect buff?
The problem is not necessarily their DPS, but that Grens bleed a lot trying to close in They're supposed to be in cover while fighting off the enemies.

So what if we just lower their reinforcement cost to 28 after G43 upgrade?

What about an indirect buff?
The problem is not necessarily their DPS, but that Grens bleed a lot trying to close in They're supposed to be in cover while fighting off the enemies.

So what if we just lower their reinforcement cost to 28 after G43 upgrade?

TBH i like this approach a bit more.

Also i would scrap Interrogation (which is harder to use after fixing bugs and behaviour with crawlers) and somehow make it into a some slight increase vision range while static or minimap info for short period of time.

Yeah this is another problem. The gren G43 is pretty ass at mid range and beyond, making it hard to find a good engagement for them since Kar98 works different. But I think giving it too much of a mid-range and/or longrange buff is no option because it would either be OP or overlap too much with lmg42 and Panzergrens.

So I thought basically a "weaker Ober stg44" would be ideal to help them finding better engagements without fiddling with their wipe potential and longrange performance too much. And I also dont think this change would allow them to just brainlessly charge into an enemy that waits behind heavy cover since grens still have the low survivability

I more or less agree with you, its just that I am a bit skeptical about cover ignoring weapons, since it involves no brain power to use and thus will lend itself to be spammed.

It seems to me that they are fine as they are. I see often g43 blobs sprinting with storm doctrine.
G43 grens are not even that easy to push away cause of mid range g43 damage when they focus charging units. The upgrade anyway is cheap, and with new vet damage reduction they are working better on close combat if i'm not wrong.
It is a very easy upgrade to make it OP even by slightly modifying the stats.

What are u smoking? Storm doc doesn't have G43. And yeah, G43 grens shouldn't be pushed away by charging unupgraded riflemen or else what the fuck did Ost pay 45 munis for? Penals will still beat g43 grens at long range. Get a single bar and rifles will again dominate g43 grens.

It's beyond me how a few people still think gren g43 needs a nerf. It's an early game upgrade will very poor scaling into the late game.

Each unit had different HP i know that. And that was good cus that didn't mean having 4 men squads was a disadvantage but a tradeoff. But in coh2 having 4 men squad is all disadvantage with no benefit at all.

Yeah I know it's a nightmare to implement coh1 system. If you do even a little bit coding you would know.

I can get back to g43's but that does not mean that system was bad for balance or taxing on the player.

That's not true. Generally larger squads have lower dps and smaller squads have very high or centralized dps. Look no further than the con/gren matchup for an ideal contrast of this.
Grens upgrade means that they could lose 3/4 models and retain the majority of their DPS which helps offset the otherwise dramatic drop in power per model lost while cons upgrade makes them more effective at holding ground and dying.

All Elite 4 man squads have insane damage output while the same but larger squads generally have more utility packed in to flesh out their value to prevent overbearing power.

4 man squads may not have a hard coded advantage but they do have their squishy mess taken into account with designs to offset that weakness. I think the wehr battle phase system could be tweaked to help with the issues late game of small squads but saying there is no advantage to a small squad is absolutely bullshit.

That's not true. Generally larger squads have lower dps and smaller squads have very high or centralized dps. Look no further than the con/gren matchup for an ideal contrast of this.
Grens upgrade means that they could lose 3/4 models and retain the majority of their DPS which helps offset the otherwise dramatic drop in power per model lost while cons upgrade makes them more effective at holding ground and dying.

Yes that is true for grens and cons. Con you please explain how that is the same case for gren v rifles/ gren v penals.

All Elite 4 man squads have insane damage output while the same but larger squads generally have more utility packed in to flesh out their value to prevent overbearing power

That is so untrue.

Did you forget that paras have larger squads and has 2 lmg's.
Did you also forget AB guards have larger squads and 3 lmg's
or para's, rangers, shcoks have both larger squad size, better defense per model and higher dps at close range compared to their axis 4 men counterparts(pg's , storms, falls, ir obers).

4 man squads may not have a hard coded advantage but they do have their squishy mess taken into account with designs to offset that weakness. I think the wehr battle phase system could be tweaked to help with the issues late game of small squads but saying there is no advantage to a small squad is absolutely bullshit.

That is also a complete bull statement.
The only compensation to their squishiness is OST has the bat shit OP MG42 or the P4(both okw and ost) is better than Shermans, T34/76's and Cromwells .

Yes that is true for grens and cons. Con you please explain how that is the same case for gren v rifles/ gren v penals.

Is this the same rifles that cost 40mp more and have to pay extra for their grenade and earn their snare vs grens who spawn with a snare and instead get the ability to heal themselves and others at vet 1? Just to clear up so I can make the proper comparisons. And again, are you wanting me to compare those same grens with their 80mp tech cost against the penals with twice that ontop of being 25% more expensive and still not having a snare when they spawn and never having a quick nade at all?

Cost is a factor as is role as is the faction roster. There are many factors you are ignoring to say there is no advantage to smaller squads which is dishonest.

That is so untrue.

Did you forget that paras have larger squads and has 2 lmg's.
Did you also forget AB guards have larger squads and 3 lmg's
or para's, rangers, shcoks have both larger squad size, better defense per model and higher dps at close range compared to their axis 4 men counterparts(pg's , storms, falls, ir obers).

All rules have exceptions. Usf infantry as a whole is designed to be above the rule and paras are no different as they must be attractive compared to rifles who are supposed to be more effecient than general.

I like how you are highlighting AB guards and not taking into account the lmg they have 3 of. The worst lmg in the game, so bad they are they are not sold individually... Which iromicly proves my point about smaller squads generally having more potent weapons and concentrated firepower....

As for those other squads, I like how you highlight durability and close range firepower which generally go hand in hand anyways (because you need to be able to close to deal the damage, look no further than the old ass engies to see how well a cqb squad with nor durability works) and ignore that falls, Obers, JLI ect all have great long range dps which means they don't need to out themselves in as great a risk to deal great damage- a great trait for smaller squads. You also neglect to account for target size' one of the main factors in deciding if a squad takes small arms damage, which smaller squads again generally have an advantage name a 4 man squad that isn't pios with more than a 0.9 target size and then name a 6 man squad with less. Smaller squads are less likley to take damage from small arms ONTOP of being long ranged usually compounding their ability to resist small arms damage.

That is also a complete bull statement.
The only compensation to their squishiness is OST has the bat shit OP MG42 or the P4(both okw and ost) is better than Shermans, T34/76's and Cromwells .

Ost has many advantages to account for their small squad sizes, the entire faction was designed with them in mind. Thier team weapons are among the best in class, their units are quite tailored at their roles (pios can scount, pgrens get bonuses near armour, grens lmg and general all round performance) Ost can also heal their small squads more easily than most factions keeping them on the field. They have the only halftrack that can heal units inside it to reduce attrition. And grens also are the only unit in the game with a stock damage reduction to prevent wipes.
Again, I think the battle phase system could use some work to help them a bit more in overcoming the small squads inherent weaknesses but you sre flat out lying if you say there are no counterbalanced to them. There are many design considerations in place to keep they asymmetrical design working.

What are u smoking? Storm doc doesn't have G43. And yeah, G43 grens shouldn't be pushed away by charging unupgraded riflemen or else what the fuck did Ost pay 45 munis for? Penals will still beat g43 grens at long range. Get a single bar and rifles will again dominate g43 grens.

My mistake, lighting war. Keep calm man.

My mistake, lighting war. Keep calm man.

he is cyber ost warrior

dont make him mad!

Think about it another way.
If someone is charging your grens.
Is g43 better than mg42?
Hell yes.

But non of those are an inherent advantage of being 4 men squad now is it???? 4 men squads have inherent disadvantages that larger squads do not.

Yes, Everything has exceptions. But it's funny you say that given there is nothing else remaining that follows those rules(unless you count partisans/ostruppen as elite squads).

Here is an example of 6 men squad having better RA than a 4 man one. Vet3 Gren 0.7 RA vs Vet3 Cons 0.65 RA.

But hey 5 man sections 0.9(now 0.85) RA vs 4 men grens 0.91 RA. 5 man commandos 0.72 RA vs 4 man stroms 0.75 RA. Or the "new and improved????" agrens 6 men 0.9(0.9025 close enough) RA vs grens 0.91(hah take that higher than 0.9) RA.

OK, ab guards. Section Brens have less dps(+10% of dp's) than gren mg42's. I wonder who wins against 2x bren sections vs mg42 grens????If you ever tried using ab guards with 3x dp's you would realize how badass they are. They are one of my favorite soviet units in the game, Behind regular guards (cus you know button and shit).

Look man, it seems like only i think agrens are a hidden gem of a unit, for everyone else they still suck.

Ost team weapon are the best. Cus when you get one as a sov it just makes you day with 6 men pak, 6 man MG42's just amazing.

Think about it another way.
If someone is charging your grens.
Is g43 better than mg42?
Hell yes.

Nope. MG42 is guarantied to shred models specially a vet 3, g43's not so much. The whole g43 works better on PG's anyway's.

G43 Grens are probably the best 45 munition weapon upgrade in the game and it goes on a 240 MP unit. Cavalry Riflemen have to pay that just for a single satchel.

USF or UKF doesn't have anything even close to that cost effective. You have to pay 150 MP, 15 fuel, retreat back to your base, pay another 120 munitions just to give your infantry a chance against LMG42 Grens and Panzergrens as it is.

G43 Grens are probably the best 45 munition weapon upgrade in the game and it goes on a 240 MP unit. Cavalry Riflemen have to pay that just for a single satchel.

USF or UKF doesn't have anything even close to that cost effective. You have to pay 150 MP, 15 fuel, retreat back to your base, pay another 120 munitions just to give your infantry a chance against LMG42 Grens and Panzergrens as it is.

Geee.... Only if ost was allowed to spend 140 munis to win against your infantry with 120 muni upgrades.
Also commando Brens are almost as strong as Ober MG34's(about 2dps less at all ranges) for 45 munis. So don't talk about how ukf doesn't have anything that cost efficient.

-Upgrade cost is 45 muni which is very cheap for what it does
-Jaeger infantry doc exist and it has very interesting ability that further improves CQC capability

With g43+camo for 65 muni grens can:
1)rush team weapons\lower tier squads and take them out
2)ambush almost any squad on map except high tier CQC like shock troops(that's actually only 1 CQC capable of endure g43 ambush attack and win at 2cp)rangers with thompson or paratroopers,any other squad will completely lose to grens and grens will take very little damage
3)from ambush and with sprint they can use snares that almost impossible to dodge making light vehicle play very tough

With so much coming from cheap 65 muni upgrades combo,with buffed g43 this doctrine gonna be overpowered(in my opinion it is right now in right hands)

In this doctrine g43 grens are situational CQC and unbelievable great at defence(whole OST faction about that)

Yes g43 without camo upgrade is very weak(also still cheap as hell)but light jaeger doctrine exist so we need take that into consideration when deciding to buff g43

If you want to play with g43 take light jaeger doctrine,if you don't just know that g43 upgrade in other doctrines are just little situational bonus

Everything also applies to Recon squad,they just better at all of this

Also everything can be applied to pgrens with camo witch is also going to perform better,but pgrens also costs considerable higher