guards are 6 models
Guards have good AI and AT and time AT snare
Guards will not wipe out easily by indirect fire and shells
dont tell us everytime only the downsides from one unit...
He is talking about airborne guard who have no at packages m8.
Buff stormtrooper mp40
25 Jan 2020, 18:55 PM
#21
Posts: 1563
He is talking about airborne guard who have no at packages m8.
25 Jan 2020, 20:19 PM
#22
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
No offense, but if this thread does not go somewhere quickly I'll close it. Especially in light of many other discussion threads that need to be tracked. 21 posts and only maybe 5 have been productive.
On topic:
I think the comparisons you make are wrong. Airborne guards do not fulfill a similar role as Stormtroopers. Guards are frontal assault units, Storms are not. That would be like comparing Pathfinders to Grens because they are both long range infantry.
Camo is a very big factor. Best comparisons (which where done in another thread) are probably the two commando units of UKF. And even then you should not only compare DPS, but also the effective health pool, abilities, veterancy and passive effects like faster decapping etc.
On topic:
I think the comparisons you make are wrong. Airborne guards do not fulfill a similar role as Stormtroopers. Guards are frontal assault units, Storms are not. That would be like comparing Pathfinders to Grens because they are both long range infantry.
Camo is a very big factor. Best comparisons (which where done in another thread) are probably the two commando units of UKF. And even then you should not only compare DPS, but also the effective health pool, abilities, veterancy and passive effects like faster decapping etc.
26 Jan 2020, 04:29 AM
#23
Posts: 1563
No offense, but if this thread does not go somewhere quickly I'll close it. Especially in light of many other discussion threads that need to be tracked. 21 posts and only maybe 5 have been productive.
On topic:
I think the comparisons you make are wrong. Airborne guards do not fulfill a similar role as Stormtroopers. Guards are frontal assault units, Storms are not. That would be like comparing Pathfinders to Grens because they are both long range infantry.
Camo is a very big factor. Best comparisons (which where done in another thread) are probably the two commando units of UKF. And even then you should not only compare DPS, but also the effective health pool, abilities, veterancy and passive effects like faster decapping etc.
I know commandos perform a similar role. But the DPS of storms is kinda low. They don't kill as quickly as people make it out because their DPS is lower than the other infiltration unit + they have to face larger squads + they don't have based. They are at this point partisans but if partisans were good.
26 Jan 2020, 05:34 AM
#24
Posts: 3053
Buff stormtroopers up to commando DPS and they have no justification to remain 2cp. You'd have to increase them to 3cp to match commandos, which would be fine IMO, they'd be stronger as a unit but would have to come a bit later (and as you said be more expensive).
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26 Jan 2020, 06:04 AM
#25
Posts: 1563
Buff stormtroopers up to commando DPS and they have no justification to remain 2cp. You'd have to increase them to 3cp to match commandos, which would be fine IMO, they'd be stronger as a unit but would have to come a bit later (and as you said be more expensive).
Then why the hell are falls at 2cp?? They have camo with bonus + 2x Uber bars + bundle nades + snares + they cost less than storms too.
There is one more justification on why storms should come in at 2cp.
Commandos have ehp of 556
Storms have ehp of 427. That is almost 130hp or > 1.5 models mate.
26 Jan 2020, 09:38 AM
#26
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
Then why the hell are falls at 2cp?? They have camo with bonus + 2x Uber bars + bundle nades + snares + they cost less than storms too.
Falls have half of their firepower gated behind tech.
Do you want storms to have 2 MP40s only until you get T4?
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
26 Jan 2020, 10:17 AM
#28
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
Falls have half of their firepower gated behind tech.
Do you want storms to have 2 MP40s only until you get T4?
This does not make sense.
Falls already have high firepower when unupgraded. I have to look up the exact DPS (and other bonusses) yet, but what holds Falls back is a overall mediocre commander that you usually only get for Falls and Valiant Assault in hope to wipe enough units until your opponent gives up. Also their range profile is way better then Storms
26 Jan 2020, 10:33 AM
#29
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
This does not make sense.
Falls already have high firepower when unupgraded. I have to look up the exact DPS (and other bonusses) yet, but what holds Falls back is a overall mediocre commander that you usually only get for Falls and Valiant Assault in hope to wipe enough units until your opponent gives up. Also their range profile is way better then Storms
They indeed to have good firepower out of the gate, but its not 80+dps out of camo, which some people compare it to.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
26 Jan 2020, 10:49 AM
#30
Posts: 1563
They indeed to have good firepower out of the gate, but its not 80+dps out of camo, which some people compare it to.
I'm not comparing them for 80+ cqc dps. They are overall quite strong for 2cp. I see no reason an increase in 11% in mp40 0-10 range dps warrants a whole cp increase along with price increase when there are already plenty powerful units at 2cp like guards, shocks, falls, ppsh penals (if you wanna consider them).
26 Jan 2020, 10:53 AM
#31
Posts: 17914 | Subs: 8
I'm not comparing them for 80+ cqc dps. They are overall quite strong for 2cp. I see no reason an increase in 11% in mp40 0-10 range dps warrants a whole cp increase along with price increase when there are already plenty powerful units at 2cp like guards, shocks, falls, ppsh penals (if you wanna consider them).
Guards and shocks aren't ambush units. Ppsh penals are dictionary definition of glass cannons and can't stealth. Falls have half their potency locked behind tech and starting DPS while good is already much lower then 60+.
10%+ is a massive buff, regardless which stat you talk about here.
Maybe it's 'cause the Axis players aren't a bunch of forum crybabies, and they keep their cool and fight the uphill battle, unlike some of their "allied" counterparts.
26 Jan 2020, 10:59 AM
#32
Posts: 1563
Guards and shocks aren't ambush units. Ppsh penals are dictionary definition of glass cannons and can't stealth. Falls have half their potency locked behind tech and starting DPS while good is already much lower then 60+.
10%+ is a massive buff, regardless which stat you talk about here.
commandos used to have a total squad dps of 71 and that was increased to 82.5 a +16%. shocks used to have 75 dps now they have 85 which is a +13% and got their price reduced (400->360). I fail to see how that a +11% dps with a prince increase of 340 to 375 (+10%) is that huge looking at past examples.
Or do you have any other excuses boy.
26 Jan 2020, 11:02 AM
#33
Posts: 3114 | Subs: 2
Guards and shocks aren't ambush units. Ppsh penals are dictionary definition of glass cannons and can't stealth. Falls have half their potency locked behind tech and starting DPS while good is already much lower then 60+.
10%+ is a massive buff, regardless which stat you talk about here.
That misses the point. The question is if Storms are balanced according to their timing, role and price. If they are UP, a buff does not require another stat to be nerfed.
However I agree that Zero's comparisons to non infiltration units are bad and counterproductive.
26 Jan 2020, 11:10 AM
#34
Posts: 810
Make them 5 man squad and nerf Mp40 dps little
add infiltration tactics, done
add infiltration tactics, done
26 Jan 2020, 11:16 AM
#35
Posts: 1563
That misses the point. The question is if Storms are balanced according to their timing, role and price. If they are UP, a buff does not require another stat to be nerfed.
However I agree that Zero's comparisons to non infiltration units are bad and counterproductive.
OK, but mandos are infiltration units.
And i never said storms are UP they are of limited use. at least with higher dps they could be used to clear out support weapons more efficiently. They take longer than commandos to kill support weapon and are more at risk of being taken out while doing so cus they have less models, requires more time due to dps combined larger and/or more agile support units along with having to face much higher dps defending infantry + they don't have nades as well.
Falls have really high dps at all ranges. Almost as high as pg's at close and about as strong as Bren lmg at long. Stomrs can't do that they need to get close. And Tactical assault is only a death sentence.
26 Jan 2020, 11:17 AM
#36
Posts: 1563
Make them 5 man squad and nerf Mp40 dps little
add infiltration tactics, done
So you want ober assault grenadiers or 5 man pg's????
26 Jan 2020, 11:31 AM
#37
Posts: 810
So you want ober assault grenadiers or 5 man pg's????
The problem of Mp40 stormtrooper is not DPS
They are four-member squads, and killing one person reduces their firepower by 25%, making them extremely vulnerable to tactical advance debuff penalties
Lowering the dps of the mp40 and making them into 5 man squad will make them more stable to use
ober ass gren?
I don't know why you do that comparison
They have different roles and different things they can do
Do you not understand this much?
26 Jan 2020, 11:32 AM
#38
Posts: 3588 | Subs: 3
Stormtroopers are very strong. Great damage, elite camo, smoke, flame nade, self healing.
L2P issues don’t mean they need a buff. This is a phenomenal unit that requires skill to use.
L2P issues don’t mean they need a buff. This is a phenomenal unit that requires skill to use.
26 Jan 2020, 13:45 PM
#39
Posts: 1563
The problem of Mp40 stormtrooper is not DPS
They are four-member squads, and killing one person reduces their firepower by 25%, making them extremely vulnerable to tactical advance debuff penalties
Lowering the dps of the mp40 and making them into 5 man squad will make them more stable to use
ober ass gren?
I don't know why you do that comparison
They have different roles and different things they can do
Do you not understand this much?
Ober means upper or super in this case. I really hope i don't really have to explain what i was saying as it was so obvious.
26 Jan 2020, 13:48 PM
#40
Posts: 1563
Stormtroopers are very strong. Great damage, elite camo, smoke, flame nade, self healing.
L2P issues don’t mean they need a buff. This is a phenomenal unit that requires skill to use.
Right that's why i see stroms every game and never see commandos/fallscrimjaeger.
Side question: what in this game doesn't require skill to use(other than one click abilities)???
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