jackson armor nerf

Jump back to quoted post23 Jan 2020, 10:42 AMVaz

I don't really understand why an occasional bounce from a p4 is so unbalanced. When it comes to regular tank battles, other tanks bounce shots off the p4. I've had a p4 miss, but not bounce on an allied tank. When it comes to unfair bouncing it only gets worse as you go up from p4. Axis heavier armor can double or triple their already high health with bounced shots. 57mm, m36, m4, bazooka, all frequently bounce. Axis AT can reliably 4 shot an m36, with p4 sometimes needing 5 on m36. At least with USF, I've had panthers just parked in front of a 57mm, not pay attention to the panther, bounce 4 57mm shots, then notice and move it back. The m36 still has disappearing rounds too, either it doesn't shoot out the barrel or the round disappears when it reaches the target, doing 0 damage. It's quite pathetic, so I really don't see why the p4 sometimes bouncing one shot is anything significant.

Jump back to quoted post23 Jan 2020, 10:38 AMblvckdream

You forgot the extra range it gets. But I agree completely. It is so frustrating when people claim the USF AT gun is somehow bad when it is clearly the best in the anti-tank department. Guess none of them had their tanks sniped at 65 range (or whatever take aim gives, maybe even 70?) by a combination of HVAP shells and Take Aim self spotting before.

How many times do people need to point out that the USF ATG is absolutely insane when feeding it some muni. And feeding it some muni really is not a big deal considering it is currently the chepeast AT-gun in COH2. (other than soviet mini at gun)

Jump back to quoted post23 Jan 2020, 10:54 AMblvckdream

Every AT-gun/tank/whatever has disappearing rounds. It happens on all sides. Nothing limited to the M36.

The odds of a Panther bouncing 4 57mm shots in a row are 10% and that is if all shots hit front armour. And that is for a vet 0 M1 ATG without HVAP.

Jump back to quoted post23 Jan 2020, 11:17 AMVaz

I only get disappearing rounds from m36. I've not had a problem with other units of any faction.

Jump back to quoted post23 Jan 2020, 11:19 AMblvckdream

I just checked your playercard and you basically play 90% USF. So maybe, just maybe, this has something to do with it??

Jump back to quoted post23 Jan 2020, 12:33 PMVaz

Why do you need to switch from talking about the issue to talking about me? These kinds of personal attacks are what make these discussions toxic.

Jump back to quoted post23 Jan 2020, 10:32 AMblvckdream

Yeah that change was very very weird. I don't know what they thought it is going to accomplish?

Jump back to quoted post20 Jan 2020, 15:31 PMmons7erz

Cost is a big factor, for one.

Puma 370MP 70FU.
Jackson 400MP 145FU

I don't believe a vehicle that's literally half the cost, should be able to counter. if we're re scaling costs/Performance, it wouldn't be a bad thing, i guess. Or, we could just make the M10 viable again, there would probably be less Jackson play. making the Puma a hard counter to the jackson would just push the poor soul in the dark more...
Think of the m10s!

Jump back to quoted post23 Jan 2020, 10:08 AMHannibal

This is not one single point, thus is honestly jumping all over the place. Comparing two factions vs one, IS2 nondoc for USF, suddenly on topic Jackson, then back to Tommy sections.
But indeed I at least did not see a comparison

Jump back to quoted post23 Jan 2020, 14:40 PMC3 TOOTH

I dont mind Jackson gets some nerf IF there are other reliable AT option to deal with Panther & King.

Jump back to quoted post23 Jan 2020, 14:51 PMthedarkarmadillo

I think the biggest issue is HVAP. it should be a toggle shell like the sherman HE (who, imo should be a timed shell) with distinct attributes specializing in heavy or medium armour with the opposite being vulnerable. There isn't necessarily an issue with one unit doing multiple jobs, the issue lies in doing them at the same time and with the most effectiveness of any, and also having literally any other trait you could possibly want piled into the same vehicle.... Separate modes for heavy and medium armour imo is the most basic route we could take for aligning the Jackson to a standard of balance without neutering the USF's ability to fight armour.

Jump back to quoted post23 Jan 2020, 14:40 PMC3 TOOTH

Sorry for my English here. Tommy was just an example why Jackson cant be nerfed.

I dont mind Jackson gets some nerf IF there are other reliable AT option to deal with Panther & King.

If all Axis have (to be specified: OKW) only have Puma & Panther non doc (no Pz4 Jgpz4 King). No matter how OP Panther is, I will never ask to nerf Panther if USF have Wol Jack Pershing non doc, because its all they have.

Its not the units. Its the faction that LACK of unit, especially tanks vs tanks, Jackson is all USF have. Thats why even though they're OP, balance team can only price them up, not to nerf them down.

Jump back to quoted post23 Jan 2020, 15:30 PMEsxile

You'll just make the Jackson even more OP with this solution. Or to make both modes bad vs their respective targets.

Jump back to quoted post23 Jan 2020, 15:30 PMEsxile

You'll just make the Jackson even more OP with this solution. Or to make both modes bad vs their respective targets.

Jump back to quoted post23 Jan 2020, 13:04 PMblvckdream

Because it explains your clouded judgment of only Jacksons suffering from disappearing shells when it's a thing that happens to all units in COH2.

Jump back to quoted post23 Jan 2020, 17:09 PMthedarkarmadillo

How so? That's specifically the opposite of what the change would be to do...

Jump back to quoted post23 Jan 2020, 19:34 PMelchino7

Low accuracy + High pen + Low rof + High damage = Good against heavy armor

High accuracy + Avg Pen + Avg Rof + Normal damage = Good against mediums

There are other possibles combinations but that's just an example.

Jump back to quoted post23 Jan 2020, 20:35 PMEsxile

Today the Jackson is not good vs mediums,...

Jump back to quoted post23 Jan 2020, 21:41 PMVipper

What?
It is not good because it can not hit the PzIV?
Because it can not penetrate the PzIV?
Because it can not out run the PzIV?
Or because it does not out range the PzIV?