Jackson need nerf then maybe finnaly usf players will use shermans and zooks as AT option.
Or the balance team will finally end the M1 AT meme and bring it in line with other AT.
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Jackson need nerf then maybe finnaly usf players will use shermans and zooks as AT option.
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Or the balance team will finally end the M1 AT meme and bring it in line with other AT.
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So you want to nerf the M1 ATG? Because it's already the best ATG in COH2, it's ridiculous when you feed it some muni and counters LVs best out of all ATGs while costing 270 MP, even less than Raketenwerfer.
The only ATG that comes close is Zis3 because of stupid barrage ability.
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yep i guess nerfing m1 and Jackson will be enough as i said usf still have strong at options like shermans stuart shock shells and zooks
So you want to nerf the M1 ATG? Because it's already the best ATG in COH2, it's ridiculous when you feed it some muni and even without HVAP and take aim counters LVs best out of all ATGs while costing 270 MP, even less than Raketenwerfer.
The only ATG that comes close is Zis3 because of stupid barrage ability.
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Someone said about 60 range stug i like it but his canon must deal 120 dmg per shot like su76
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Would be fair with more pen then.
Edit: I also think that Jackson should get less pen, HEAT should become non-vet so it gets any sence.
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It already does. A well timed Panther dive can easily kill a Jackson on most occasions.
I mean if we made the Jackson's armor 90-100, that would give it really good pen chances at all ranges?
Jackson also has a larger than average target size iirc, and the pumas vet 1 ability gives it a decent chance against most t4 units. If the armor nerf went through i think that would be a good spot
I could be overplaying the target size difference though, i trust your intuition on the accuracy point more than mine
So you want to nerf the M1 ATG? Because it's already the best ATG in COH2, it's ridiculous when you feed it some muni
No, I KNOW it’s amazing, but every time we discuss the M36 being nerfed somehow we always end up on why the M1 isn’t good enough vs super heavies.
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I would take it the other way around if you ask me.
Increase Pen, decrease rate of fire.
Better performance against heavies, even at Vet0, worse against mediums and Pumas
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1. Low accuracy at max range. At 60 range, it has 28.6% less chance to hit than the M36 (when both are stationary).
2. Low moving accuracy (0.5) means you're going to miss a lot, or be forced to 'stop and start' a lot, which allows for the enemy to eventually get out of range. The M36 has a 0.75 moving accuracy modifier.
3. Low damage. This one is arguable due to RoF, but not so much once you factor in accuracy. 120 damage just isn't that much against a 640hp tank when you have trouble hitting it.
4. It has horrible turret rotation (for an LV), so corners or even just flanking it are very viable counters. There are some medium AI-tanks and other LVs with nearly 4x faster rotation.
5. Awful pathing. I'm not sure if its just confirmation bias, but the puma seems to get stuck (or turn randomly) on just about everything when its chasing stuff.
6. Low armor. At 25/12.5 armor, the puma takes damage from just about everything; combined with 400hp, that's not great for diving.
7. Availability. The puma isn't available to OST unless you pick the "mobile defense" doc, which is incredibly unpopular now (it was never picked in WCS). It also forces OKW to go mech-truck to counter USF's late game, which either means the med-truck becomes even less popular than it currently is, or mech becomes a required back-tech in USF games.
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I already addressed some of those points. I said they should add it to another Commander in Ost and maybe give mobile defense some love. The unit could also be buffed, maybe with better moving acc
You are leaving out the fact that the Puma can self spot, so it should get first shot advantage pretty often. And Jackson turret speed isn't great either
Awful pathing isn't unique to the Puma, I think all the light tanks suffer from it since they can't crush anything besides wooden fences
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1. Forcing a commander pick to counter a very common mainline isn't a good idea, imo, especially for a faction that currently relies very heavily on doc abilities/units.
An interesting idea might be to put the puma in the HQ, but locking it behind BP3 (but not the T3 building) - or putting it in the T2 building, but requiring BP3 to be researched in order to build it (to prevent T2 skipping). This might also help Ost in facing LVs, since they're currently extremely vulnerable to fast T70s (and others).
2. The +15 sight the puma has over the M36 is nice, and would come into play a fair bit. However, when chasing/diving, the M36 is going to have vision from other units closer to the front-lines. Additionally, if we're talking about "other bonuses", the M36 has a vehicle crew (self repair, target dropping, pop-avoidance, etc.).
As for turret speed, the M36 and Puma both have a rotation speed of 35, which is also the same as most medium tanks (panther, P4, Sherman, T34/76, etc.). I only brought up rotation because the Puma is an LV, and most LVs have around 100 rotation speed (as do some AI-focused mediums, like the Ostwind).
3. This is a good point, and I agree, it's probably an issue with most/all LVs. The thing is, the M36 doesn't really have these issues, so it's just another advantage it would have in this match up.
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I mean no one is saying it can dominate the m36, or that it should. Presumably you wouldn't dive after a full health Jackson with your puma for 1 on 1 showdown
But with a few tweaks it could be a much more reliable option to use against it
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Also, the tweaks required to make the puma a good counter (or even just viable) would make it incredibly strong against LVs, which would cause a bunch of other issues.
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Okay but I'm talking about tweaks to both units not just the Puma. Lowering the Jackson's armor does not effect LVs. Moving accuracy would effect it a little
But it's already incredibly strong against LVs?
Also the Jackson use to have much slower reload than it does now and imo the buff that changed that went WAY too far
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I would take it the other way around if you ask me.
Increase Pen, decrease rate of fire.
Better performance against heavies, even at Vet0, worse against mediums and Pumas
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The only issue with that is the fact that they'd get dumpstered by panthers for lack of enough DPS since the panther is almost as fast.
The M36 is having its damage modified to be more reliable against tanks, including heavies, but less potent in terms of burst damage against lower health vehicles.
Cost from 360/125 to 400/140
Damage from 200 to 160
Reload from 5.2/5.8 to 4.375/4.975; does not affect HVAP
HVAP damage decreased from 240 to 200
HVAP penetration from 300/250/220 to 300/280/250
Penetration from 240/220/200 to 260/240/220
Health from 480 to 640
Veterancy 3 reload bonus from 30% to 15%
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Snipped for space
Considering the M36 was changed back in December 2017 for this exact reason, lowering the RoF and Increase damage isn't really an option.
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