Are Ass Grens too good??

Flamers do more damage against green cover (heavy/garrison) but if you are at 10 range there is no point to stay in cover as point blank mechanic kicks in.

PD: on a 1v1 scenario.

I removed cover u can literally see it

btw this prove u didn't test and just made it up

How me commenting on your test proves my test were made up. And how can I be certain at which point you removed cover. Also I never said flamer engines , I mentioned upgrades with associated units

Ok, I guess my opinion is somewhat controversial, but for me none of the numbers (about price or DPS) or who beats who that is listed in the OP is relevant to answer the question if AssGrens are too good.

This is strictly from a 1v1 perspective, but I'd tend to look at different numbers; in this case I'd look at the numbers of the meta in the World Championship.

Are AssGrens so OP that OH won every game? Turns out: No. Well, either that, or the top players simply didn't recognize that they are and hence ignored OH for the most parts. I'd trust the judgement of the players there...

Alright. Ok, but maybe the AssGrens are still too good, there are other faction related factors that led to OH being played significantly less?

Well, let's look at the commander and unit counts then:
We had 41 games for which we had the commander choice. Indeed Mechanized assault and Strategic Reserves indeed were used... 11 games in total. So, AssGrens are apparently not good enough to get player to always chose a commander that has them. In fact, they used such a commander only in roughly 25% of games.

Also, out of these 11 games, only 4 where won. As oppose to the other two Tiger doctrines Lightning War and Spearhead which actually featured positive win/loss ratios! So, either the top players didn't play these Commanders, or the Commanders are meh, despite having AssGrens; either way, it doesn't look "too good" for AssGrens.

The fact that they saw some play at all and in a notable number of games (although far from the majority of games) indicates that they are in a way better spot than they were in previously. But the "too good" doesn't hold up.

Disclaimer 1: Again, this is from a 1v1 perspective, 2v2 and up might be a different story.
Disclaimer 2: We are looking at top players here. I totally get that at lower skill levels AssGrens can be hard to deal with. I know, I'm pretty bad (well, used to be around average), and I had problems dealing with them even when they were worse. But apparently this is really a L2P issue on my side, so...

Assgrens aren't OP period tbh. They just do their job.

Assault Grenadiers force allied players to play defensive, something allied player might not be prepared to do when playing against Wehrmacht.

Personally when I see Assault Grenadiers I simply act like am playing against OKW.

How me commenting on your test proves my test were made up. And how can I be certain at which point you removed cover. Also I never said flamer engines , I mentioned upgrades with associated units

cause i made multiple photo at different time lines, the cover were created to make them stand in a line so they are all at perfect range

Ok, I guess my opinion is somewhat controversial, but for me none of the numbers (about price or DPS) or who beats who that is listed in the OP is relevant to answer the question if AssGrens are too good.

This is strictly from a 1v1 perspective, but I'd tend to look at different numbers; in this case I'd look at the numbers of the meta in the World Championship.

Are AssGrens so OP that OH won every game? Turns out: No. Well, either that, or the top players simply didn't recognize that they are and hence ignored OH for the most parts. I'd trust the judgement of the players there...

Alright. Ok, but maybe the AssGrens are still too good, there are other faction related factors that led to OH being played significantly less?

Well, let's look at the commander and unit counts then:
We had 41 games for which we had the commander choice. Indeed Mechanized assault and Strategic Reserves indeed were used... 11 games in total. So, AssGrens are apparently not good enough to get player to always chose a commander that has them. In fact, they used such a commander only in roughly 25% of games.

Also, out of these 11 games, only 4 where won. As oppose to the other two Tiger doctrines Lightning War and Spearhead which actually featured positive win/loss ratios! So, either the top players didn't play these Commanders, or the Commanders are meh, despite having AssGrens; either way, it doesn't look "too good" for AssGrens.

The fact that they saw some play at all and in a notable number of games (although far from the majority of games) indicates that they are in a way better spot than they were in previously. But the "too good" doesn't hold up.

Disclaimer 1: Again, this is from a 1v1 perspective, 2v2 and up might be a different story.
Disclaimer 2: We are looking at top players here. I totally get that at lower skill levels AssGrens can be hard to deal with. I know, I'm pretty bad (well, used to be around average), and I had problems dealing with them even when they were worse. But apparently this is really a L2P issue on my side, so...

Can you please explain at what point I said they were op??? at what point I said they were the cause for axis winning streak?? at what point i said they were hard to deal with??? The too good part is referring to the fact despite their cost they quite decent units at doing their jobs.

cause i made multiple photo at different time lines, the cover were created to make them stand in a line so they are all at perfect range

However they had distance of more than 10. For ass section and thompson cav riflemen their 2 thompsons have profile similar to stg's and dont drop as fast as regular smg's. That might have contributed to the results.

However they had distance of more than 10. For ass section and thompson cav riflemen their 2 thompsons have profile similar to stg's and dont drop as fast as regular smg's. That might have contributed to the results.

each line is 5 range ........

Seems like I didn't make my point clear enough. What I wanted to say is that personally I think metrics like cost, DPS, etc. not overly interesting to determine whether a unit is "too good". Instead, I would look at how often it is used in a competitive environment. If it the dominant option over other alternatives, I'd say it obviously is "too good" relative to those alternatives. If the players using them are also surprisingly successful with them, the might even be "too good" relative units of other factions.

To give an (obviously hyperbolic) example: Assume the PIV was patched and now costs 0 MP and 0 fuel while killing everything in sight instantly. Now, if we have tournament and nobody ends up using this PIV, it will be hard to make a case that the tank is too good, no?

Can you please explain at what point I said they were op??? at what point I said they were the cause for axis winning streak??

I didn't say you said that, I was merely laying out my line of thought. That said, you do say they are "too good" here:

To me this seem really good in fact too good.

proceeding to say that they are not OP. What is the difference between "too good" and "overpowered" for you? I know the latter is kind of a loaded term, but fundamentally they are pretty much the same, no?

at what point i said they were hard to deal with???

Well, I figure most people post about a certain unit after being either surprisingly succesful with them or frustratingly unsucessful against them. I mean it is not like you would wake up in the morning thinking "I wonder if the Sherman is too good..." after not playing the game for a year or so.

Seems like I didn't make my point clear enough. What I wanted to say is that personally I think metrics like cost, DPS, etc. not overly interesting to determine whether a unit is "too strong". Instead, I would look at how often it is used in a competitive environment. If it the dominant option over other alternatives, I'd say it obviously is "too strong" relative to those alternatives. If the players using them are also surprisingly successful with them, the might even be "too strong" relative units of other factions.

To give an (obviously hyperbolic) example: Assume the PIV was patched and now costs 0 MP and 0 fuel while killing everything in sight instantly. Now, if we have tournament and nobody ends up using this PIV, it will be hard to make a case that the tank is too strong, no?



I didn't say you said that, I was merely laying out my line of thought. That said, you do say they are "too good" here:

Ok that's fair.

proceeding to say that they are not OP. What is the difference between "too good" and "overpowered" for you? I know the latter is kind of a loaded term, but fundamentally they are pretty much the same, no?

Is saying pre patch volks and pre patch section are on the same level correct?? Though I should have clarified. Here 'too good' means they do their job well and are also pretty cheap. Calling something 'OP' would mean the counters for it are far too inefficient or they are too powerful even if they had a justifiable cost.

Well, I figure most people post about a certain unit after being either surprisingly succesful with them or frustratingly unsucessful against them. I mean it is not like you would wake up in the morning thinking "I wonder if the Sherman is too good..." after not playing the game for a year or so.

Well it's kind of in between those 2 states. I found success but I'm pretty low level, I sometime struggle against them if i'm caught unprepared (or do something stupid that is). Also it seems that the new and improved ass grens are kinda unappreciated.

cause i made multiple photo at different time lines, the cover were created to make them stand in a line so they are all at perfect range

You sure???? Then do the test couple of more times then.

You sure???? Then do the test couple of more times then.

i did i posted only a few of them, (at least i did unlike u posting nothing and making false claims)

i did i posted only a few of them, (at least i did unlike u posting nothing and making false claims)

Well If it helps you sleep better at night thinking that i lied then go ahead think what you want.
PS: the range 5 ones are closer to the center of the map.

Well If it helps you sleep better at night thinking that i lied then go ahead think what you want.
PS: the range 5 ones are closer to the center of the map.

ps look at all the screen shoots u see they are mid map

ps look at all the screen shoots u see they are mid map

Sure man sure.

Seems like I didn't make my point clear enough. What I wanted to say is that personally I think metrics like cost, DPS, etc. not overly interesting to determine whether a unit is "too good". Instead, I would look at how often it is used in a competitive environment. If it the dominant option over other alternatives, I'd say it obviously is "too good" relative to those alternatives. If the players using them are also surprisingly successful with them, the might even be "too good" relative units of other factions.

To give an (obviously hyperbolic) example: Assume the PIV was patched and now costs 0 MP and 0 fuel while killing everything in sight instantly. Now, if we have tournament and nobody ends up using this PIV, it will be hard to make a case that the tank is too good, no?



I didn't say you said that, I was merely laying out my line of thought. That said, you do say they are "too good" here:



proceeding to say that they are not OP. What is the difference between "too good" and "overpowered" for you? I know the latter is kind of a loaded term, but fundamentally they are pretty much the same, no?



Well, I figure most people post about a certain unit after being either surprisingly succesful with them or frustratingly unsucessful against them. I mean it is not like you would wake up in the morning thinking "I wonder if the Sherman is too good..." after not playing the game for a year or so.

+1

Sure man sure.

dude fuck u


bottom left they are mid map, u would know if u played the game for once

Well If it helps you sleep better at night thinking that i lied then go ahead think what you want.
PS: the range 5 ones are closer to the center of the map.

I mean your first test involved you changing owner of units that could already see each other, which shows a clear lack of understanding of how testing works, as multiple people pointed out to you

Rather than take this advice gracefully, you decided to stop posting tests and instead criticize someone who already knew what they were doing and actually put in the effort to do it right...

I mean your first test involved you changing owner of units that could already see each other, which shows a clear lack of understanding of how testing works, as multiple people pointed out to you

Rather than take this advice gracefully, you decided to stop posting tests and instead criticize someone who already knew what they were doing and actually put in the effort to do it right...

No, I stopped respecting him caus he called me a liar. So i really didn't give a sht after that point.