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Are Ass Grens too good??

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ZeroZeroNi
13 Jan 2020, 16:49 PM
#1
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Posts: 1563

A. Grens used to suck. But with the buff are they perchance to good. Well let's see.
They cost 280 mp and comes at 0cp. Same as A. Engies. Comparing them,
RA: 0.95 vs 0.9 (grens vs engies)
DPS: 10.5 vs 13.5 (grens vs engies, per model)
The assault grens are weaker. But they have sprint to close in and very powerful specops nades.
They also when t3 is researched can upgrade to 6 man. Improving their RA to 0.9 adding 1 man. And with that upgrade they beat: ass angies, thompson cav rifles, assault sections, commandos, mp40 storms, IR STG obers from close range. Although they can't take on more powerfull allied cqc squads like thompson paras, ranges or ppsh airborn guards, assault guards, shocks. However they have that grenade ability. If used well they can challenge any of those squads as well. They also have very stron vet bonuses.
Offensive: +40% acc, -25% cooldown
Defensive: -33.6% RA (giving the 6 man squad a very good 0.6 RA, this is probably the highest defenses for a 6 man squad gets if we exclude the shocks)
So the 6-man ass grens are pretty good. For only 280mp+60mu and 0cp unit they can achieve what other axis squads can't parity with allied cqc units.
To me this seem really good in fact too good. + they also come from 2 doctrines which have tigers(TA in strat reserve and regular Tiger in mech assault).
Now I'm not saying they are OP or need to looked at but simply they are quite cost effective (maybe too cost effective) and the commanders they come from are not bad.
So what do you guys think about the ass grens???
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Aarotron
13 Jan 2020, 16:53 PM
#2
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Posts: 563

Imo they are at least fine. They allow ostheer way to play aggressive early game without being useless later on. Counters to them also exist withallies, with them being able to bully them with early game light vehicles, maxims and vickerses. Usf might struggle a bit early on but once teched and bars avaiable, they can be dealt with.
"Pain is almost euphoric sam!"
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ZeroZeroNi
13 Jan 2020, 16:58 PM
#3
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2020, 16:53 PMAarotron
Imo they are at least fine. They allow ostheer way to play aggressive early game without being useless later on. Counters to them also exist withallies, with them being able to bully them with early game light vehicles, maxims and vickerses. Usf might struggle a bit early on but once teched and bars avaiable, they can be dealt with.
The question is not weather they are counter able or not but simply if they are more bang for your buck.
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IncendiaryRounds:)
13 Jan 2020, 17:03 PM
#4
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Agrens are fine. They're actually a bit underpowered against USF after the rifle buffs, balanced vs SU and probably best vs UKF.
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Clarity
13 Jan 2020, 17:06 PM
#5
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Posts: 479

For once I actually agree with IncendiaryRounds, I think Ass Grens are good but they don't have the utility other units have, nerfing them would just gimp Ostheer's early game even further since Grens aren't very good early game to begin with.
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Grining Cat
13 Jan 2020, 17:06 PM
#6
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Posts: 98

Assault Grenadiers are quite fragile.
Any mistakes with Assault Grenadiers result in a massive MP-bleed,
which is why I think they are fine and not "too good".
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T.R. Stormjäger
13 Jan 2020, 17:07 PM
#7
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Niche unit, nowhere near overtuned.
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SkysTheLimit
13 Jan 2020, 17:13 PM
#8
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A grens are not OP. They most certainly aren't UP either, there's nothing wrong with them no matter what faction your facing
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Stug life
13 Jan 2020, 17:15 PM
#9
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Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2020, 16:49 PMZeroZeroNi

The assault grens are weaker. But they have sprint to close in and very powerful specops nades.
They also when t3 is researched can upgrade to 6 man. Improving their RA to 0.9 adding 1 man. And with that upgrade they beat: ass angies, thompson cav rifles, assault sections, commandos, mp40 storms, IR STG obers from close range. Although they can't take on more powerfull allied cqc squads like thompson paras, ranges or ppsh airborn guards, assault guards, shocks. However they have that grenade ability. If used well they can challenge any of those squads as well. They also have very stron vet bonuses.

did u just pulled those out of ur ass or have something to show for it ? cause math says otherwise
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
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distrofio
13 Jan 2020, 17:20 PM
#10
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Posts: 2358

Ass grens are fine now.
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ZeroZeroNi
13 Jan 2020, 17:40 PM
#11
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Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2020, 17:15 PMStug life
did u just pulled those out of ur ass or have something to show for it ? cause math says otherwise
I'v tested each of these(around 3 times). Honestly this was quite surprising. I thought they would be on par wit cav riflemen but not better turns out they are.
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T.R. Stormjäger
13 Jan 2020, 17:45 PM
#12
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2020, 17:40 PMZeroZeroNi
I'v tested each of these(around 3 times). Honestly this was quite surprising. I thought they would be on par wit cav riflemen but not better turns out they are.


Did you use cheatcommands to spawn them in front of eachother and changed sides on one of them?
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ZeroZeroNi
13 Jan 2020, 18:26 PM
#13
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Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2020, 17:45 PMT.R. Stormjäger


Did you use cheatcommands to spawn them in front of eachother and changed sides on one of them?
kinda, but whole one squad having faster aim times, different formations bothered me. So in later tests i set up 2 sand bags at around range 7/8 apart and made then charge into those covers starting from a bit further away.
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T.R. Stormjäger
13 Jan 2020, 18:29 PM
#14
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2020, 18:26 PMZeroZeroNi
kinda, but whole one squad having faster aim times, different formations bothered me. So in later tests i set up 2 sand bags at around range 7/8 apart and made then charge into those covers starting from a bit further away.


Yeah this method doesn’t work. Changing squad owner in range of an enemy squad messes badly with the combat. Your results are all wrong,
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elchino7
13 Jan 2020, 19:59 PM
#15
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jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2020, 17:07 PMT.R. Stormjäger
Niche unit, nowhere near overtuned.
My controls weren't working
And if they were, you were playing dishonorably,
And if you weren't, you were playing without skill,
And if you were, it's not fun to play that way,
And if it is, you only care about winning.

Bible of Scrublord, Psalt 3:16.

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WAAAGH2000
13 Jan 2020, 20:59 PM
#16
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Posts: 732

I'd like to see give Ost assault engineer……
Don't forget AE also a engineer,AG just grenadier
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ZeroZeroNi
14 Jan 2020, 05:44 AM
#17
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post13 Jan 2020, 18:29 PMT.R. Stormjäger


Yeah this method doesn’t work. Changing squad owner in range of an enemy squad messes badly with the combat. Your results are all wrong,
Sure about that. Why don't you do a better test and show me they are wrong.
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Stug life
14 Jan 2020, 13:12 PM
#18
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Posts: 4474

SO I DID THE TEST, U ARE A Liar

https://imgur.com/a/YeOhpe2

ps cover are only there for positioning i deleted them cause it would create problem with flamer

commando had no bonus form ambush btw, with it they win
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
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ZeroZeroNi
14 Jan 2020, 15:50 PM
#19
avatar of ZeroZeroNi

Posts: 1563

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2020, 13:12 PMStug life
SO I DID THE TEST, U ARE A Liar

https://imgur.com/a/YeOhpe2

ps cover are only there for positioning i deleted them cause it would create problem with flamer

commando had no bonus form ambush btw, with it they win

Flames do more damage in cover, and thompson have similar profile to stgs so outside of range 10 they don't loose as much dps. Hey they still beat commandos.
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Stug life
14 Jan 2020, 16:53 PM
#20
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Posts: 4474

jump backJump back to quoted post14 Jan 2020, 15:50 PMZeroZeroNi

Flames do more damage in cover, and thompson have similar profile to stgs so outside of range 10 they don't loose as much dps. Hey they still beat commandos.
I removed cover u can literally see it

btw this prove u didn't test and just made it up
katitof-2018
Katitof-2018
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