Panzerwerfer fix

The "area denial" the Werfer does, is not by kill potential but by suppression.

The thing is, you need units in the area to keep the combat status, so as suppression levels don't reduce fast.

I think the PWerfer is mostly fine, it's OSTs T4 that is not. Make T4 more accessible and let's see how it goes from there.

Imo this is best reason. Either make axis t4 great again,to be really clearly stronger purpose units or make it cheaper

Right now as wehr player, we need to save up more resources and then do more micro, to make t4 units work for their costs. Mp/fu/pop. All tie down our late games

It is fair to say allies t4 have become a match to axis, but still remain cheaper

The only way to make t4 more accessible at this point is to make it free. Seriously, it's the most accessible it's ever been. Make it much cheaper and just delete t3 at that point.

The only way to make t4 more accessible at this point is to make it free. Seriously, it's the most accessible it's ever been. Make it much cheaper and just delete t3 at that point.

Doesn't T4 only cost 100 MP and 25 fuel? That is indeed as cheap as it can be.

I'm still vowing for some 60TD in T4 and give the brummbar a portion of its range back?

The only way to make t4 more accessible at this point is to make it free. Seriously, it's the most accessible it's ever been. Make it much cheaper and just delete t3 at that point.

Well not just t4 but the cost of units of t4.
For example i always disagree why scotts is cheaper than wafer

The thing with the Panzerwerfer is not that it's bad but that it's harder to use than other rocket artillery. It's rude to say this but this is the main reason why plenty of low-ranked Axis player have cried about it in this thread. If used well it is one of the best rocket artillery units in the game and absolutely devastating. The fact that it's very hit or miss due to the low spread of the rockets makes it more skill-based than for example the Katjusha but it also means that if you do hit you will very likely wipe whatever you aimed at. Meanwhile the Katjusha's first volley of rockets is rarely enough to wipe anything and the break between the first and second volley is enough to move away.

The only way to make t4 more accessible at this point is to make it free. Seriously, it's the most accessible it's ever been. Make it much cheaper and just delete t3 at that point.

Agree. It is starting to become very annoying when you read people claiming Ostheer T4 is somehow extremely expensive when it isn't. You can simply go into the game and check the numbers for yourself and compare them to other factions, no need to come here and claim things that aren't true. Even the lowest IQ fanboy should be able to do simple maths.

The best way to make T4 more accessible is to make it worth going after in 1v1.

The best way to make T4 more accessible is to make it worth going after in 1v1.

Ostheer T4 is super cheap. How is it not accessible??? The problem is not the price of Ost T4 but that the units aren't really that good for 1v1 so people just go Tiger instead because it does everything on it's own (just as OKW Tiger and Allied heavies, they are all OP).

...

Most german units have that problem, they can perform perfect and arn't bad. I think most people agree, BUT at a micro-level many allii weapons are easier to use and the effect becomes larger on larger mutliplayer games when e.g. smaller things like range-profile became game-breaking. So scots can outperform Brummbär with ease because of range (beside the DPS is insane xD), or PaK40 become less effective because of multible enemies' heavy-tanks and AT situation became sad because of no long-range non-doc tank-hunter. Such things could be solved by remove the passive-fire or nerf it into ground and make only barrage effective, or make hit-ground more micro-important like StuG E.

This could be solved by smaller abilities, which have less impact on 1vs1 but becomes balancing-factors for other game modes. Also fractions shouldn't get an advantage because of map-design, at the moment hedges are simply too good for Brits. E.g. without mortar-emplacement is bad, with OP.

Edit: It should be possible. ^^

Ostheer T4 is super cheap. How is it not accessible??? The problem is not the price of Ost T4 but that the units aren't really that good for 1v1 so people just go Tiger instead because it does everything on it's own (just as OKW Tiger and Allied heavies, they are all OP).

That’s literally what I just said lol

But it's fine without the officer... Nothing wrong with the werfer

It's fine in the sense it can do it's job. However my point is it 1. does not do it particularly well compared to things like katty and especially the STUKA. 2. It's more costly to get compared to the other 2 mentioned units especially the STUKA. 3. Even to it's intended job it requires more skill than a katty/STUKA. An incendiary barrage will give it some versatility without making it OP.

The best way to make T4 more accessible is to make it worth going after in 1v1.

This is something I agree with. Before the last price reduction I had a thread about how Ost should get stuff with each battle phase that way you WANT to get BP3 even if you plan to use t3 units and then escalating to t4 is less of a big jump since you are already part way there (if that makes sense)
Like imo grens damage reduction should be not tied to vet but instead a battle phase. Cost reductions for the med kits or Bunkers or even general weapon upgrades could be tied to the battle phases just to make it actually feel like a battle phase instead of a worthless half step of tech.

Most german units have that problem, they can perform perfect and arn't bad. I think most people agree, BUT at a micro-level many allii weapons are easier to use and the effect becomes larger on larger mutliplayer games when e.g. smaller things like range-profile became game-breaking. So scots can outperform Brummbär with ease because of range (beside the DPS is insane xD), or PaK40 become less effective because of multible enemies' heavy-tanks and AT situation became sad because of no long-range non-doc tank-hunter. Such things could be solved by remove the passive-fire or nerf it into ground and make only barrage effective, or make hit-ground more micro-important like StuG E.

This could be solved by smaller abilities, which have less impact on 1vs1 but becomes balancing-factors for other game modes. Also fractions shouldn't get an advantage because of map-design, at the moment hedges are simply too good for Brits. E.g. without mortar-emplacement is bad, with OP.

Edit: It should be possible. ^^

Just to add on this. Wehr support teams grows worse off since they are up against larger allies squad size that has more dps, better med range moving damages, etc. Say pak40, it is slowest to reposition.

Such little things adds up. T4 units used to be more effective for their costs, which were critical for late game wehr comeback.

Just to add on this. Wehr support teams grows worse off since they are up against larger allies squad size that has more dps, better med range moving damages, etc. Say pak40, it is slowest to reposition.

Such little things adds up. T4 units used to be more effective for their costs, which were critical for late game wehr comeback.

Wher has more durable tanks and most have better dps as well non doc then allied tanks do non doc. So does okw. Their teamweapons esp their mg,s are better or as good at stopping inf movement while being cheaper or of simaler cost. For being slightly slower the pak ahs higher pen higher rof and a snare as vet.
So allied inf being more durable and better dps is a non issue when all things are considerd. Allied basic inf in general are more expensive as well.

In the past ost t4 was much more effective for their cost indeed. So much that if allies let ost rech t4 it was gg. Same with letting okw reach kt. Both where not hard to get to.

Also because axis team weapons used to be a lot better. Twp not being i win engagement with its stunlock is an improvement. The raketten stealth sniping and recon and the double to triple faster rof ost mortar no longer excisting is a good thing. On the allied side lots off things where removed or nerfed as well over time.

With allies facing levels of armour that double their own and a third more hp on just as or more manoverable and faster tanks. With already lower pen values then axis moslty at that time allied late game was a joke.
Now the td,s have been overtuned with the KT as benchmark because they made the foolish decision to make it non doc. Because of this alone axis late game including ost t4 sufferd greatly. Hence everyone going tiger as ost or okw. Stalling into heavies is most cost effective atm, allies then still need their better td,s, without them their chances are quite bad still.

So throw the kt into a doctrine or 2. Tone down allied td,s and delay heavy and superheavies quite a bit and revert some of their acc scatter rof buffs, and apply some other buffs if needed. This should fix the heavy stalling imo.

Just to add on this. Wehr support teams grows worse off since they are up against larger allies squad size that has more dps, better med range moving damages, etc. Say pak40, it is slowest to reposition.

Such little things adds up. T4 units used to be more effective for their costs, which were critical for late game wehr comeback.

That is also a factor, but I don't want to repeat myself over the years in every thread.

Look at the hole way-finding and speed problems of German tanks.


I think I was never so disappointed than at the actual moment. I normally play Ostheer and Westheer, playing since release mainly Achse. But it allways felt way easier to win as Allii, even verus my own mates lvl 16+ in 1vs1 and 2vs2 have problems versus my noob-soviet game-play. The balancing is a joke, because you see that the balancing team started to look only on their porblems, like someone had no idea how to counter Brummbär, so what? Dobble-nerf it. xD Someone had problems with Cons, so what? Dobble-buff them.

Edit: Sure, I starting to troll. But the game starts to fuck me up after 7 years.

Edit: Look at things like passive suppresion of tank-Mgs in CoH1, why we don't have that? Because blobbers would be sad? Arse.

Maybe it should come in sooner than T4

I normally play Ostheer and Westheer, playing since release mainly Achse. But it allways felt way easier to win as Allii,

Nothing wrong with your personal preferences but this is a pretty massive generalization imo

I dont trust the opinion of anyone who says "X side/faction has always been worse/better than Y." This game has been getting multiple huge patches a year for most of its existence, things change way too much for that to be true

Like Brits for example. Bat**** OP on their launch and for a while after. Now they are practically irrelevant

Maybe it should come in sooner than T4

If you take it what do you put in its place? Ostwind with a price cut?

Nothing wrong with your personal preferences but this is a pretty massive generalization imo

I dont trust the opinion of anyone who says "X side/faction has always been worse/better than Y." This game has been getting multiple huge patches a year for most of its existence, things change way too much for that to be true

Like Brits for example. Bat**** OP on their launch and for a while after. Now they are practically irrelevant

I was shouting out many fractions, also when Ostheer and OKW was OP. But the last years it seems, that the revamp action of balance-team only go in one direction. Cutting on one side, while pushing the other.

I think that most units are in a good position, but need some micro-managment changes OR different timing.

It is difficult to do that, but I allways thought the community-team can handle it. I tried to became a real member of the patch-team 2 years ago, but only became a helper of Mr.Smith back in the commander revamp. I wasn't a fan of the ideas and still think that the changes were not optimal. Later I changed to Wikinger-Mod and start modding for vanilla version everytime something fucks me up, because I love the vanilla version and its feeling. Then I publish my codes for the everyone.

Nothing wrong with your personal preferences but this is a pretty massive generalization imo

I dont trust the opinion of anyone who says "X side/faction has always been worse/better than Y." This game has been getting multiple huge patches a year for most of its existence, things change way too much for that to be true

Like Brits for example. Bat**** OP on their launch and for a while after. Now they are practically irrelevant



If you take it what do you put in its place? Ostwind with a price cut?

I'm not sure tbh